New Eagle TA

Seggy said:
@Gonzo, I seriously have NO idea what is going on here. I am with you though and I think @LoadMasterC141 is wrong to say any laws were broken. I also highly doubt any Eagle ALPA Policy Manual policies were broken in getting a vote on this TA because if something was done outside of the Policy Manual, it wouldn't be hard to make the vote null and void.

From what is going on here though is you have absolutely atrocious representation and communication from that supposed representation. I know @LoadMasterC141 seems to like his DFW Reps but it is absolutely chicken crap they (and others) 'abstained' from this type of vote. This isn't a type of vote you abstain for. Don't even get me started on the chicken crap communication going on with this. Down right lies from elected ALPA officials from my understanding.

If @LoadMasterC141 and @Gonzo vote no I respect that. I don't respect how his MEC is handling this though. It is very sad and the membership deserves a lot better. The lack of leadership from the Eagle MEC is sickening.
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Most of the Union leadership will flow within six months. The MEC chair, comm chair, DFW CA rep and a few others.

NYC Comm
Today the MEC met in Herndon (Washington, DC) to discuss the industry, our place in it, the company's continuing demands for concessions and some internal staff matters. Of supreme importance to the New York pilots is the Company's demands for concessions beyond what we agreed to in bankruptcy. As you are aware, on February 12th the MEC voted NO to the concept of these concessions. Since that time, both the Company and the Association leadership have been properly engaged in discussions aimed at finding a path forward that is mutually beneficial and not mutually assured destruction.



It has come to light that management and a vocal minority of Eagle pilots don't believe the MEC speaks for the vast majority of the pilot groups. With Ray sampling nearly 100% of the NYC CA population and Sam taking sufficient sample to have an accurate assessment of NYC's collective mood -- and similar actions undertaken at other domiciles -- we can't imagine how we could represent you any more honestly or transparently. Personally, we're not inclined to make decisions based upon what management thinks of our governance processes, but we also recognize we can't be effective when they only see us as a rogue MEC or being obstinate for the sake of being obstinate. Your Reps are also growing weary of repeated comments that we had “robbed” or “stolen” the vote of the Eagle pilots; that the Eagle pilots did not get to have their say. In Herndon this week, there was movement by management to make minor improvements to the AIP. So, DFW, MIA and NYC Reps decided to finally put an end to the claim that the MEC was not allowing the pilots to speak. The vote was 3 votes yes, 0 votes no and 6 of us abstained. We could have voted 6 to 3 to kill the deal. Neither NYC, DFW or MIA felt the deal was worthy of your labors and sacrifice to this company, however the MEC had already spoken once on February 12th. Now it's your turn.

The AIP is coming to the pilot group for a vote. Now will be the time to make your voice heard. In the coming days and weeks both the Association and the Company will be making base visits to discuss the deal. Please review the documents, please engage both Association and Company leaders and decide for yourself if this is a deal you want to work under for the next 10 years.


Sam & Ray
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Gonzo said:
Most of the Union leadership will flow within six months. The MEC chair, comm chair, DFW CA rep and a few others.
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NYC Comm
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Then why didn't they just vote for it on Feb. 12th with clear communication that even though they voted for it, they hate it but they want to let the pilots decide the course of action to take? It looks like they are showboating instead of doing the actual work and educational processes that needs to be done.
 
DFW COMM


Fellow DFW pilots,

We have some interesting news from Herndon. The company has once again put us into a situation where we are voting on a new and improved version of the AIP. Mine and Kelly’s opinion was that the AIP was dead and we didn’t have anything to vote on.

Another note was the reoccurring theme from the new AAG management was that the MEC did not represent the Eagle pilots. They kept asking how 5 pilots could make a decision of this magnitude for the rest of Eagle pilots. Interestingly, our management appeared to have no qualms about a few managers making the decision to drag the Eagle pilots into this self-manufactured crisis.

There were six of us who abstained from the vote. We have told the company numerous times that we do not want to entertain any agreement that contains concessions. They have not gotten the message and continue to force the issue of concessions at a time when we believe the state of the industry is obviously shifting in our favor.

Kelly and I have grown weary of AAG management and a few vocal eagle pilots repeatedly stating that we had “robbed” or “stolen” the vote of the Eagle pilots; that the Eagle pilots did not get to have their say. While we were in Herndon, there was another attempt by management to make minor improvements to the AIP in conjunction with another time threat. In that light, the six of us decided that we did not want to vote on something that was already dead. We also decided to finally put an end to management’s claim that we were not allowing the pilots to speak. It was agreed among the majority of the members of the MEC that unless we finally lay this question to rest, this drama would continue to resurface until the AIP was finally polished to the shine where 51% of Eagle pilots would vote for it. What we have heard from you in addition to your trust and instruction was “when will this finally be over?”

We are keenly aware that the majority of DFW pilots asked that we not bring this to the pilots for a vote. We are deeply aware of the obligation that rests with the trust you have in us to represent your interests. We believe we have accomplished that to the best of our ability. Now we are handing that vote back to you. We know some of you will not be sanguine with this. We humbly ask that you consider our words and reasoning.

AIP is coming to the pilot group for a vote. You will be asked to make a decision on whether this grab for money just prior to a time when Kelly and I believe the industry is changing dramatically in our favor is acceptable for the next 10 years. We both remain available to your questions and comments

The vote was 3 votes yes (ORD and AETC), 0 votes no and 6 abstained (DFW, JFK and MIA)

Stay Strong, Stay Engaged,

Together,




www.alpa.org
 
Seggy said:
Then why didn't they just vote for it on Feb. 12th with clear communication that even though they voted for it, they hate it but they want to let the pilots decide the course of action to take? It looks like they are showboating instead of doing the actual work and educational processes that needs to be done.
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A lot went down today. I think the big thing is that they saw the company's plan to give away planes to Mesa and it scared them. That and ALPA national saying they had better be careful about misrepresentation.

I never thought the company was bluffing. In fact, I bet we still see MESA get some planes because they tried hard to get them. But it is like Gonzo said - we have nothing to be afraid if it really does shut down.
 
LoadMasterC141 said:
A lot went down today. I think the big thing is that they saw the company's plan to give away planes to Mesa and it scared them. That and ALPA national saying they had better be careful about misrepresentation.
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Dude, you may know this, but that threat was there on February 12th. But instead of making a rational decision at that time, emotions got in the way and the pilot group was yanked along with those emotions.

I never thought the company was bluffing. In fact, I bet we still see MESA get some planes because they tried hard to get them. But it is like Gonzo said - we have nothing to be afraid if it really does shut down.
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Fair enough. Like I said, if you vote no, I respect that. Truth be told, you all should have had a chance to vote by now.
 
Seggy said:
Dude, you may know this, but that threat was there on February 12th. But instead of making a rational decision at that time, emotions got in the way and the pilot group was yanked along with those emotions.



Fair enough. Like I said, if you vote no, I respect that. Truth be told, you all should have had a chance to vote by now.
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As a solid no, I was fine with it not going to a vote, and I would have been fine with it going to a vote. I completely agree that the union should have maintained some sort of continuity in their resolve today. Like you said though, at least we get to vote on it.
 
LoadMasterC141 said:
The same as yours.

Some new info coming to light as to why the 6 members abstained, and this IS from mainly Eaglelounge so take it for what it is worth: The company provided proof that they were about to execute plan B and award the E175s elsewhere. This put enough concern in the MEC, and also the mutiny from the 3 members made it clear that the MEC tactic did not have enough unity to succeed, that they decided to let it go to a pilot vote.
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You...you think...they're not going to do that?

o_O
 
H46Bubba said:
Mesa wants the AE CRJ-700s and a few EMB-175. That's the word I'm getting from my Mesa contacts..
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47 aircraft on top of the 30 175s and 9 900s they already have to staff up for? Plus some more 175s? I would be astonished if they could pull it off. The hiring is going to start tapering off as they and SKW finish bleeding out Lakes. Plus they have cold called pretty much everyone at this point. Doug loves his bottom feeder, but you think they would learn from RAH.
 
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LoadMasterC141 said:
47 aircraft on top of the 30 175s and 9 900s they already have to staff up for? Plus some more 175s? I would be astonished if they could pull it off. The hiring is going to start tapering off as they and SKW finish bleeding out Lakes. Plus they have cold called pretty much everyone at this point. Doug loves his bottom feeder, but you think they would learn from RAH.
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Just primarily the CRJ-700, since they already have a fleet and training program. So that's 25 aircraft. They're reaching when it comes to more 175. I didn't hear about 9 more CRJ-900 a/c
 
H46Bubba said:
Mesa wants the AE CRJ-700s and a few EMB-175. That's the word I'm getting from my Mesa contacts..
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Dear American: Mesa isn't going to turn out well for you. Love, "A guy who was on a full fare ticket when they flew contract for a large Southeastern-based major airline that they dropped for performance and quality problems".
 
Derg said:
Dear American: Mesa isn't going to turn out well for you. Love, "A guy who was on a full fare ticket when they flew contract for a large Southeastern-based major airline that they dropped for performance and quality problems".
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This is the new post Ch.11 Mesa!;) They cleaned up their act, but will quickly go back down that road again if they get too big for their britches!
 
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