New Captain and Old FO

Camposeco

Well-Known Member
So, yesterday I flew with a pilot who has been in aviation since he started as a FA back in the 80's... he then became a pilot and has flown for 20+ years at various airlines, including about 10 yrs as PIC, and then landed as a FO at our company a couple years ago. I have only been a captain for 3 months now.

During our time in between flights I asked him to prepare the cockpit and coordinate the boarding while I ran to the terminal to get some food for both of us.

I came back with plenty of time to spare and everything was ready to go, but he was rushing everyone (including myself) to push back because we were close to our departure time. I know he was just trying to get us all off on-time, but that is not really how I like to do things.

Any pointers?
 
Point to your epaulettes, then point to his...then make the "I'm watching you" gesture.
Ineffective and douchey. :)

The captain sets the pace, unless it's rushed to the point of being unsafe. If the FO is rushing, just sit back and maintain your own steady pace until you're satisfied that things are done right. You're like the drummer in a band; control your band's tempo. :)
 
Hold up four fingers on your right hand, reach over your left shoulder and thrust it in his general direction, and rub the four fingers across the epaulettes in a downward motion.
 
Just acknowledge his experience, say "Hey, I know you're very experienced and just doing what I asked but let's slow down a bit so we don't overlook anything." Bam end of discussion. You acknowledged his experience and showed some respect for that. then asserted your rank in a respectful manner and then deflected to the safety angle to defuse any further comment.
 
How do you have plenty of time to spare if you are close to your departure time?

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

You are totally right, that sentence doesn't make sense at all, my bad.

We did have plenty of time to get ready and start the push (about 25 minutes).
 
I did slow things down but didn't say anything, mainly because I didn't know how to.

Now I do, thank you!
 
Ineffective and douchey. :)

The captain sets the pace, unless it's rushed to the point of being unsafe. If the FO is rushing, just sit back and maintain your own steady pace until you're satisfied that things are done right. You're like the drummer in a band; control your band's tempo. :)

I'm starting IOE next week and didn't know that, so thanks. I've always wanted to be in a rock band.
 
This should come as no surprise but I've found that a lot can be learned from situations involving a new captain and an old FO. My first 135 turbojet captain flight (and many after that) was with a retired Delta captain as my FO. Nick retired from Delta at age 60 in the late 90's and began working with our company in the early 2000's as an FO. I learned quite a bit from him both from his past experiences and how to manage folks in the cockpit. It certainly helped that he had no ego whatsoever and knew his place.

All that said you're still the captain, you set the tone, you set the pace. Ultimately the buck stops with you.
 
You as captain, whether you have 0 PiC in type and its your first leg off IOE or if you have 10000 PIC in type, are ultimately responsible for the safe operation of that airplane. Furthermore, it is your job to set the tone of both the flight deck and the interaction with the cabin crew.

That being said, take your time. You don't have to explain anything sitting at the gate getting ready for departure. If the FO is ready and rushing things, just tell them to give you just a minute. Don't make it degrading or condescending, just simple and slow like you really do need a little extra time. Maybe say it as you are getting your seatbelt put on, or verifying switch positions prior to pushback (you did leave for a period of time). Just be nice and gentle yet confident and in control with the statement.

Once airborne and out of sterile cockpit, then you can take the time to explain. Thank them for their effort in getting things ready. Maybe a small apology for brushin their eagerness aside. Explain then that you are still fairly new to the seat and needed an extra bit to mentally catch up with what they had physically accomplished. Make them feel good about the job they did while subtlety reminding them that even though you are still new, you are still in charge :)
 
Ineffective and douchey. :)

The captain sets the pace, unless it's rushed to the point of being unsafe. If the FO is rushing, just sit back and maintain your own steady pace until you're satisfied that things are done right. You're like the drummer in a band; control your band's tempo. :)



Sorry, I thought the sarcasm was more obvious. I'm not a 121 guy so most of what I say is BS anyways...lol
 
Since there are a few new upgrades here (CONGRATS GUYS!!!!) I'll post this again. Somebody sent it to me a while back when I upgraded and I think it's a good read.

First there are a few suggestions for reading material to get in the mindset of a captain.

Dr. Anthony Kern, LTC USAF. "Flight Discipline" and "Redefining Airmanship",
Ernest K. Gann, "Fate is the Hunter"


There are a few more, but those three books were incredibly helpful for me.

Also included was a list of a bunch of hypotheticals. If you work through each one you start to develop a problem solving mindset that hopefully works for all issues. I think the guy was with ExpressJet so a lot of the situations revolve around CAL airports and wholly owned problems.

General Situations
Great Captains are made not born: Why you should be including your FO in your planning/decision making.

How to fill out an ASAP form. (it’s depressing how few Captains have shown their FOs how to do one.)

Customs in a foreign country pulls one of your crewmembers off into a side room for special questioning. What are your rights, what should you do?

TSA is inappropriately wanding your female FA. What do you do? What are her rights?

You are very close to departure and there is chaos in the jetway with many ground personnel all giving you conflicting information, getting in your FA’s way and wanting to close the MCD and pull the stairs/jetway for an on-time departure. What do you do?

Gate agent pulls jetway/stairs from aircraft, leaving the Main Cabin Door open to the ramp.

Scheduling argues with you about required rest.

You arrive at the hotel after extensive delays for a reduced rest overnight. The hotel informs you they have sold your rooms and all they have are smoking rooms with couchbeds.

You are put on the same floor as a wedding party/convention/group for a reduced rest overnight with a very early wakeup and a 12 hour day scheduled. You can’t sleep because of the noise in the hallway from people partying and running up/down the hall. What do you do?


Aircraft Problems
Loopholes in MELs: example- APU MEL does not state the engine driven gens must all be working, whereas the MEL for the APU starter/gen function does.

Mx in other countries.

At an outstation the station manager comes into the cockpit and says she is grounding the aircraft, it has a fuel leak. Upon inspection you see that the aircraft is being fueled and the "fuel leak" is just venting from the spark arrestor/overflow vent. You explain this to her and she states she has already called Contract Mx and the aircraft will not be allowed to move until they inspect the airplane.

On takeoff just after getting airborne the #2 engine fire warning light illuminates then goes away. What do you do?

You call Mx out to service the #1 hyd system, but they say it is ok. It was much lower in flight, near the yellow low level. What do you do?


Weather Problems

Dispatch says you don’t need the fuel, your gut says you do. If you add the fuel you’re going to have to bump people and or bags. Weather appears to be ok but….

Same as above but you’re going to have to bump nonrevs, including commuting pilots.

When would you perform a high speed abort on icy runway? What about if you have an engine failure with low ceilings in a snowstorm on an icy runway covered with anti-ice fluid with a crosswind in a place such as Halifax?

Ugly weather day going to EWR/IAH. Dispatch lists LGA/EFD as your alternate, 8 minutes enroute, 400# of fuel. You know that if the weather is so bad in EWR/IAH everyone and their brother will be bailing to LGA/EFD and there is No Way you will make it there in 8 minutes with 400# of fuel. It’s going to be more like 30-45 minutes and you’re going to need 800-1,500# of fuel. If you want to list a more realistic alternate you’re going to have to bump passengers to get the fuel on board. What do you do?

Ugly weather day. As you’re boarding a dinosaur FA in uniform looks into the cockpit, and in a loud voice that draws the attention of every passenger within ten feet says "Now, you boys DO know how to fly in weather like this, right?"

Ugly weather day with delay at outstation. While boarding a passengers draws the attention of everyone in the area by saying very loudly (trying to be funny): "Didn’t I see you at the bar during the break?"

TSTMs ahead, you want to deviate. ATC says unable, opposite direction descending traffic for LGA. What do you do?

Same scenario but the frequency is so clogged you cannot get your reply in. What do you do?


CRM Problems
Pilot on jumpseat insists on interrupting the checklist by interjecting "Center" for all challenge/responses. What do you do?

Gate agent says count includes 25 with the FA jumpseater. You say What jumpseater?

FA jumpseater shows up dressed in sandals, shorts, and an Hawaiian shirt. You tell them they can ride but they need to change. They look at you and reply "But you’re Express..."

FA shows up for last flight of the night dressed in blue jeans to ride the jumpseat. You remind them of the dress code and they nod, you let them on because you’re a cool Captain and not one of those hardasses. The next morning they show up again for the jumpseat dressed the same way. What do you do? What about if the only seat is the jumpseat?

A passenger has purchased 2 seats because they are claustrophobic. A FA is supposed to be riding the jumpseat but your FA reports they are talking to the passenger, trying to persuade them to let them ride in that seat.

You have severe problems at home, are possibly looking at a divorce and know you’re not 100% but have to come in even though your mental state is only 50% or less. How do you handle it?

Passenger appears intoxicated and demands to see the Captain while taxiing out.

While performing the Receiving Aircraft Checklist you are grabbed from behind by the shoulder and turned around. A passenger has entered the cockpit, is waving their ticket at you and demanding you make the FA change their seat.

FA comes to you on day 2 of a 4 day and says "You’re really confusing me with the way you do things, and I’ve been here longer than you so here’s how you’re going to do it from now on."

FO/FA appears to be intoxicated.

FO keeps trying to start a political/religious argument.

You’re on a roll of bad landings and the FO is on a roll of greasers. He lords it over you, even making comments in front of passengers or mocking you to the FA.

2nd leg of a 4 day. Taxiing out you call for Flaps 9 and the taxi checklist. The FO rolls his eyes, looks at you and says "Are you one of those guys that’s going to make me run EVERY checklist?!!"

FO is sweaty and appears flushed. You ask if he feels ok and he replies that he has had the flu for 3 days but needs to save his sick calls for a concert he’s going to next week.

FA appears all sweaty and appears flushed. You ask if they feel ok and they reply that they have the flu but they are on termination warning for sick calls. You can hear them hacking through the bulkhead.

After the in-range ACARS you note you are getting a new FA. You query your current FA and she states she was sick all night, called scheduling this morning but said she could get the flight to the base. She states she has been in the lav most of the flight so a passenger did the service for her.

On initial descent, ATC assigns you 15,0’ as you pass through FL250. The FO/PF puts the local altimeter in his PFD. What do you do?

FO hitting on FA, who does not like it.

FA hitting on you, despite you telling him/her to knock it off.

FO/FA hooked up the night before and now there’s a tenseness in the air.

You see one of your crew members drinking in the bar within the 12 hour limit. What about within the 8 hour limit?

The FA is underage, the FO takes her drinking. Do you get involved?

FA has never seen an Orthodox Jew. They are praying, saying their prayers and swaying back and forth. FA is convinced they are an Islamic Terrorist and want you to divert.

In flight the Cabin Emerg light in the intercom illuminates. You try to raise the FA but there is no response. You look through the peephole and they are calmly sitting in their jumpseat. What do you do?

FO is from another airline who does nothing but complain about Express, and constantly tells you how it’s done at a REAL airline.

The FO insists on pounding through the buildups along your flight path (even using the autopilot in HDG mode to go through them) instead of making deviations around them. When you remind him about passenger comfort and the possibility of the FA being injured he sneers at you.

The FO pulls 7 Jepp revisions out of his flight case and say, "One of these days I gotta get caught up. Think I can just get a new set of Jepps?"

FO appears every day unshaven, uniform dirty, tie hanging around his neck. When you tell him to clean up and look professional he tells you when he’s paid like a professional he’ll look like one.

During crew brief before a night flight to a Mexico destination the FO states that if you deviate off the airways they will take the aircraft away from you.

During the pairing the FO tells you that you are in HIS seat and gives you attitude during the trip.

You meet the FO and he says "I hear you’re a new Captain." When you reply Yes I am he says "Good, I’m senior to you so I’ll give you more IOE and show you how we do it at this base."


And finally, the really important stuff...

Postscript...

It is my personal feelings that as the Captain you should no longer worry about flying the airplane, doing the weight and balance, programming the FMS or getting tied down in details you can hand off to the FO. The Captain’s job is to MANAGE the aircraft, keep the big picture and make safe decisions.

Remember that with that responsibility you also need to know how to use your resources for the best and safest outcome of the flight. Even if it means admitting you are wrong or that someone else has a better idea. Which is sometimes the hardest thing for a new Captain to do even if it is the best thing. It was for me sometimes.

The crew, passengers, ATC, Dispatch, ramp and gate personnel are all responsible to the Captain. "The Pilot in Command of an aircraft is ultimately responsible for the safe conduct of the flight." (FAR 91.3). Or as Captain Len Morgan said "Everything in the FARs, the Policy Manual, your training, can all be summed up in one phrase: It's your call, Captain."

“As the Captain, you never need to get upset or angry, or lose your temper. You have no need to explain in detail, any decision or request you make. You have already won any argument. You are the Captain".



 
Wow, that is a huge list! I'm not 121 so I really have no idea where to begin on a lot of those. Is there specialized training you get when you upgrade on handling this kind of stuff, or are you kind of let loose to figure it out?
 
Since there are a few new upgrades here (CONGRATS GUYS!!!!) I'll post this again. Somebody sent it to me a while back when I upgraded and I think it's a good read.

First there are a few suggestions for reading material to get in the mindset of a captain.



There are a few more, but those three books were incredibly helpful for me.

Also included was a list of a bunch of hypotheticals. If you work through each one you start to develop a problem solving mindset that hopefully works for all issues. I think the guy was with ExpressJet so a lot of the situations revolve around CAL airports and wholly owned problems.



And finally, the really important stuff...



Yes. Yes, you're going to run EVERY checklist.

Some people.
 
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