New ALPA leaders

[derg]

Good on Mark and Todd!

But when it comes to Moak, get ready for epic speeches, no action and "Office Space"-esque "Stop! Is This Good For The Company?" banners in all the MEC offices.

Considering he thinks we're back at pre-bankruptcy wages... Aye yi yi, don't get me started.

Looks like we have some focused EVP's though!

 

[Maurus]

Curious but what type of involvement does the ALPA National President have with individual contract negotiations where scope could get relaxed?

 

[jynxyjoe]

Yeah, I was referring to Moak, who'd you think I was referring to? Seggy or ATN? Heck no! They aren't senior enough along to make statements like "RJs are good for the company" anyway.


While I'm at it, congratulations to you two!

When you'd quoted Smooth I'd assumed you were talking about him.

 

[SpiraMirabilis]

Good on Mark and Todd!

But when it comes to Moak, get ready for epic speeches, no action and "Office Space"-esque "Stop! Is This Good For The Company?" banners in all the MEC offices.

Considering he thinks we're back at pre-bankruptcy wages... Aye yi yi, don't get me started.

Looks like we have some focused EVP's though!

I understand that RJs are good for Delta..err ALPA!

 

[WacoFan]

Awesome. Wonder what happens if ALPA gets booted for SWAPA at AirTran. Where has Todd been, anyway? Haven't heard anything from him since the merger was announced. I'm interested to hear what he thinks about being assimilated into an airline he's called a "cult" before.

Not sure how I feel about Moak getting the spot. He's been playing the "Really, we're gonna help you guys get your flight benefits back" for a couple of years now. Not sure if he was serious or just pandering for votes. Either way, no changes have been made.

I'm sure that have already sent Todd to the reeducation camps that SWA runs. Think Cambodia circa 1976.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Congrats Todd. Was told you ran a good campaign for Rice.

Thanks. Paul is an honorable man, and I was privileged to help him with his campaign. We need more Paul Rices in this union. His loss is a true loss to the profession.

And hey - did they reorganize the B groups?

Yes, the B groups are realligned before the BOD every two years.

So Todd, just curious... What will happen if the SWA merger goes through, and AirTran becomes part of SWAPA? Will you still retain your position through the full term?

If we become part of SWAPA, it will likely be quite a while from now. The merger transaction doesn't even close until next spring, and then they're planning on a two year integration timeline. It's likely that I'll serve the full two year term.

I do not support the ALPA President.

I may even cancel my PAC check off because ALPA supports the 500 hour exception for the puppy mill grads....

I'm sure that'll look great.... Leg Affairs Rep not doing PAC check off.... hope it gets the message across.

No, that won't get the message across, unless the message you're trying to send is that we're not unified and we don't want any power on Capitol Hill. Work within the system to effect change, don't take your toys and go home. I worked hard to get a man elected ALPA's president, but it didn't work out. I could get mad, blame the system, and protest by refusing to get involved. Or, I can work to keep our union on track so that we can hopefully accomplish the same things that would have been done if my candidate had been elected. Which do you think is the smarter choice? Apply the same logic to the issue you've mentioned.

Curious but what type of involvement does the ALPA National President have with individual contract negotiations where scope could get relaxed?

Very little. Those decisions are made on the local level.

 

[Maurus]

Very little. Those decisions are made on the local level.

That's what I would have thought. Sounds like some people may be overreacting then

 

[higney85]

Congrats to Todd and Mark.....

Moak is the President, you can't change it if you don't like it and there is nothing positive in NOT supporting him. I say give the guy support and a chance, the contracts that all of groups are working on are done by individual MEC's.

It was indeed quite the rodeo during election day!:crazy:

 

[granlistillo]

Good luck to all!

So I am to understand that Captain Moak is a guy that is OK with scope if it will save existing jobs at mainline and that is his schwerpunkt??

Heard some neg comments, but what realistically can we expect to see??

 

[Hacker15e]

If Capt Moak is such a turd, then how is it that he gets voted in?

Is there a generational thing going on here? Voting blocks?

I don't pretend to understand how it all works (yet?), but I've been watching ALPA through three presidents now, and every election I hear exactly the same complaints. You could take the comments made about Duane Woerth and cut-and-paste them into comments made about Praeter and now Moak.

So what's the deal here? How is it that EVERY ALPA President can be the worst possible choice for the job? Am I just hearing the spears from the peanut gallery and not hearing the silent majority who is happy with the decision and happy with the work?

Certainly the membership on JC tends to be a lot younger, and thus the point of view and subsequent voice is going to reflect that...but I see this same reaction on APC, on FI, etc.

 

[jynxyjoe]

I don't pretend to understand how it all works (yet?), but I've been watching ALPA through three presidents now, and every election I hear exactly the same complaints.

In the last three elections, has anyone shored up scope? Might be why you get the same complaints.

 

[higney85]

Pilots will always complain if they don't know the President and what he stands for he gets "slammed". LM and the rest of the mainline MEC Chairs are focused on holding scope going forward- the cat was let out of the bag back in 1998 and are just now getting limits established going forward. Say what you want, but the UAL/CAL deal may be a rude awakening for some regional operators after speaking at length to various MEC members of both. LM has been told by DCI MEC's repeatedly to keep the "heavy metal" at mainline and create jobs and mobility for the rest of us. Look at the rates in the current DL CBA and note the disparity- only people benefiting with 50+ seaters at a regional is DL mgmt due to direct employee costs. You may not like LM to be at the top, SS from FDX was clearly the other contender and had far more than just cargo carriers in support. In the end the idea of a Cargo guy as President swayed the votes from other A/B groups to LM. It's politics so that's all I'm going to say about that....


More interesting is the Alaska (B group!) MEC chair is now the First VP... Last minute nominee and won first round.... Think about that in the political landscape...

 

[Hacker15e]

From an outsider's view, the biggest problem I see with the airline pilot unions in general is that they don't have a common interest they're fighting for.

The membership is so diverse, has directly conflicting measures of "success", and consequently have agendas for "improvement" that are also in direct conflict with one another.

So, it's not surprising that one pilot group might complain about their representation while another is perfectly happy.

I have just been intrigued that, no matter who is elected to the top spot in ALPA (in the short time I've been watching and learning), there seems to be a universal complaint at how "Woerthless" (to use an old adage!) that individual is from many different pilot groups and demographics.

 

[MikeD]

From an outsider's view, the biggest problem I see with the airline pilot unions in general is that they don't have a common interest they're fighting for.

The membership is so diverse, has directly conflicting measures of "success", and consequently have agendas for "improvement" that are also in direct conflict with one another.

So, it's not surprising that one pilot group might complain about their representation while another is perfectly happy.

I have just been intrigued that, no matter who is elected to the top spot in ALPA (in the short time I've been watching and learning), there seems to be a universal complaint at how "Woerthless" (to use an old adage!) that individual is from many different pilot groups and demographics.

I've always wondered about ALPA representing both mainline airlines as well as regionals, two groups with similarities yes, but with some big differences too. Especially in the regional sense where it's not yet defined whether regionals are stepping stones, or career places. Defining that will determine what they can start chasing. Getting high pay at a "stepping stone" airline won't work....who wants to pay top dollar for "temp workers" (management view). If it becomes a career choice, then regionals can start demanding good pay/QOL, but the chance of flying anything other than an RJ or maybe EMB-XXX is nil.

I think that falls into much of the many challenges faced by these two diverse groups trying to be represented by the same union.

 

[higney85]

I've always wondered about ALPA representing both mainline airlines as well as regionals, two groups with similarities yes, but with some big differences too. Especially in the regional sense where it's not yet defined whether regionals are stepping stones, or career places. Defining that will determine what they can start chasing. Getting high pay at a "stepping stone" airline won't work....who wants to pay top dollar for "temp workers" (management view). If it becomes a career choice, then regionals can start demanding good pay/QOL, but the chance of flying anything other than an RJ or maybe EMB-XXX is nil.

I think that falls into much of the many challenges faced by these two diverse groups trying to be represented by the same union.

But by the same notion if you have a union representing majors and a union for regionals a line is drawn that would lead to a fracture of the industry far above what we even have today.

 

[bike21]

I've always wondered about ALPA representing both mainline airlines as well as regionals....

It is a question that is fielded around here (SkyW) quite a bit but I think there is a relatively simple answer. One union, one list, one goal. Sooner than later we all need to realize that it isn't mainline vs. regional or Pinnacle vs. SkyWest or Delta vs. United or what have you. Some folks contend that there should be a separate regional union, but that would only further the division and continue the whipsaw and outsourcing. We need a unified agenda and voice for all 121 pilots.

A National Seniority List of sorts would be a great start. Basically you wouldn't be penalized for moving companies but might restart on vacation accrual or something of that nature. Any pilot on the NSL with a type rating or experience on a 737 would cost at least $XXX per hour to the hiring company. Companies would compete for pilots based on work rules and enhanced pay/bonus programs. I know it sounds like a pipe dream, but otherwise the shenanigans will continue and this career will continue to erode.

We either take the control of the market forces or let them control us.

 

[MikeD]

But by the same notion if you have a union representing majors and a union for regionals a line is drawn that would lead to a fracture of the industry far above what we even have today.

It is a question that is fielded around here (SkyW) quite a bit but I think there is a relatively simple answer. One union, one list, one goal. Sooner than later we all need to realize that it isn't mainline vs. regional or Pinnacle vs. SkyWest or Delta vs. United or what have you. Some folks contend that there should be a separate regional union, but that would only further the division and continue the whipsaw and outsourcing. We need a unified agenda and voice for all 121 pilots.

A National Seniority List of sorts would be a great start. Basically you wouldn't be penalized for moving companies but might restart on vacation accrual or something of that nature. Any pilot on the NSL with a type rating or experience on a 737 would cost at least $XXX per hour to the hiring company. Companies would compete for pilots based on work rules and enhanced pay/bonus programs. I know it sounds like a pipe dream, but otherwise the shenanigans will continue and this career will continue to erode.

We either take the control of the market forces or let them control us.

Agree. Its indeed an interesting challenge that all 121 pilots face, regional or mainline. What are the chances of it heading in the direction you describe?

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

A national seniority list is probably hopeless. Portable longevity, on the other hand, is a real possibility, and it would solve a lot of problems.

 

[Hacker15e]

A national seniority list is probably hopeless. Portable longevity, on the other hand, is a real possibility, and it would solve a lot of problems.

For us retards (like me), can you explain how "portable longevity" would work in the absence of an NSL?

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

For us retards (like me), can you explain how "portable longevity" would work in the absence of an NSL?

Let's say you're a 5 year pilot at CMR, making $38/hr. Suddenly, things turn bad at CMR and you get furloughed. Today, you go to another airline and are treated no differently than a brand new pilot who just came out of flight school.

But let's say that ALPA had portable longevity built into contracts. And let's say that that 5 year CMR pilot who was furloughed went to work at Pinnacle. Instead of starting over at year 1 longevity, just a bit over $20/hr, he could keep his longevity and start at 5 year pay, which is $34/hr, just a $4 reduction from his CMR pay instead of an $18 reduction. He would still be at the bottom of the seniority list, which eliminates so many of the problems that we run into when talking about national seniority, but he doesn't take the huge pay hit which makes it prohibitive to move from carrier to carrier.