New ALPA leaders

[Hacker15e]

But let's say that ALPA had portable longevity built into contracts. And let's say that that 5 year CMR pilot who was furloughed went to work at Pinnacle. Instead of starting over at year 1 longevity, just a bit over $20/hr, he could keep his longevity and start at 5 year pay, which is $34/hr, just a $4 reduction from his CMR pay instead of an $18 reduction. He would still be at the bottom of the seniority list, which eliminates so many of the problems that we run into when talking about national seniority, but he doesn't take the huge pay hit which makes it prohibitive to move from carrier to carrier.

I guess my question is...how would it work?

I mean, what would force a company to pay a pilot commensurate with his work at another company? Would this be an FAA-imposed concept? A union-negotiated agreement? Would only time spent at a 121 carrier apply?

What would motivate a company to ever hire anyone with portable longevity (instead of just hiring a young buck who they can pay less)?

 

[ppragman]

Let's say you're a 5 year pilot at CMR, making $38/hr. Suddenly, things turn bad at CMR and you get furloughed. Today, you go to another airline and are treated no differently than a brand new pilot who just came out of flight school.

But let's say that ALPA had portable longevity built into contracts. And let's say that that 5 year CMR pilot who was furloughed went to work at Pinnacle. Instead of starting over at year 1 longevity, just a bit over $20/hr, he could keep his longevity and start at 5 year pay, which is $34/hr, just a $4 reduction from his CMR pay instead of an $18 reduction. He would still be at the bottom of the seniority list, which eliminates so many of the problems that we run into when talking about national seniority, but he doesn't take the huge pay hit which makes it prohibitive to move from carrier to carrier.

What's to prohibit companies from discriminating against applicants because they have been in the industry longer. Or, "sorry, I know you're really qualified, but hey, you've got too much portable longevity, you were on 10th year pay before, and we can't really afford to pay an ex-Captain 10 year FO pay when we have all these other guys who will do the work for literally half?"

 

[mxflyer]

Let's say you're a 5 year pilot at CMR, making $38/hr. Suddenly, things turn bad at CMR and you get furloughed. Today, you go to another airline and are treated no differently than a brand new pilot who just came out of flight school.

But let's say that ALPA had portable longevity built into contracts. And let's say that that 5 year CMR pilot who was furloughed went to work at Pinnacle. Instead of starting over at year 1 longevity, just a bit over $20/hr, he could keep his longevity and start at 5 year pay, which is $34/hr, just a $4 reduction from his CMR pay instead of an $18 reduction. He would still be at the bottom of the seniority list, which eliminates so many of the problems that we run into when talking about national seniority, but he doesn't take the huge pay hit which makes it prohibitive to move from carrier to carrier.

That would definitely be ideal. I believe that QOL would also go up too, it would give pilot freedom to move around should unfavorable circumstances arise. However, I think that would be as unlikely as a NSL.

 

[Hacker15e]

What's to prohibit companies from discriminating against applicants because they have been in the industry longer. Or, "sorry, I know you're really qualified, but hey, you've got too much portable longevity, you were on 10th year pay before, and we can't really afford to pay an ex-Captain 10 year FO pay when we have all these other guys who will do the work for literally half?"

Yes, exactly my question, too.

 

[kellwolf]

Portable longevity is exactly what the XJ guys that just came to 9E got, and CAL is potentially going to do it with United furloughs recalled to CAL before the SLI. They keep their XJ seniority number, but for the time being, they're on the 9E list as a new hire. However, they start at whatever yeah pay they would have if they'd been recalled to XJ. For most, that was year two. It gets complicated sometimes since different carriers stop accruing longevity at different points during a furlough, but I think it's a good idea.

Also makes guys like me think twice about going to non-ALPA carriers like jetBlue. Right now, there's no real advantage pay wise from me going to jetBlue over Delta, Continental or any other ALPA major. However, if I'm looking at a difference of $30/hr in pay the first year....yeah, that's a big difference.

 

[GaTechKid]

Those scenarios you list deal with companies that are merging and have an interest in keeping both employee groups civil so the combination will go smoothly. Longevity in an industry isn't a protected class from discrimination, and portable longevity raises a lot of concerns about that for me. If you can find a way around this issue then I'm listening.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

I guess my question is...how would it work?

I mean, what would force a company to pay a pilot commensurate with his work at another company? Would this be an FAA-imposed concept? A union-negotiated agreement? Would only time spent at a 121 carrier apply?

What would motivate a company to ever hire anyone with portable longevity (instead of just hiring a young buck who they can pay less)?

A contract. It would all have to be negotiated. And for it to truly be effective, it would need to be established as ALPA policy to negotiate for it. I'm not sure if this idea will continue to be explored with a new administration, but Captain Rice was pushing it heavily. Hopefully his ideas will live on after he returns to line flying.

 

[kellwolf]

Those scenarios you list deal with companies that are merging and have an interest in keeping both employee groups civil so the combination will go smoothly. Longevity in an industry isn't a protected class from discrimination, and portable longevity raises a lot of concerns about that for me. If you can find a way around this issue then I'm listening.

I personally don't see it any different than a mechanical engineer that loses his job from his company going out of business. When he gets a job at another firm, he doesn't start over at base pay. He's rewarded for the knowledge and experience he brings with him. Unfortunately, airline management doesn't see it that way, and there's always the next guy willing to do the same job for less money.

Like was mentioned, you COULD try to get it negotiated in the contract under compensation, but I'm not sure how it would work. It would cover guys getting hired from other ALPA carriers, but the big unanswered question for me is how to get management to hire ALPA guys rather than guys from Skywest or other non-ALPA regionals in order to save a buck. If every airline was under the same union (be it ALPA, Teamsters, APA, whatever), it wouldn't really be an issue. Reality is a bit different.