New air traffic controller pay

Locality is the cost of living adjustment they pay you to try to provide an equitable standard of living for controllers living in different parts of the country. Certain areas get higher locality rates because the FAA regards those areas as having higher costs of living.

Multiply the locality by your salary, then add that to your base salary - to find how much you would actually make in a particular part of the country.
 
PurduePilot said:
I'd say they're making pretty good money. It's $40k to start and then you're making close to $90k after about 4 years. I'll look up the payscale, but I don't have time now...Not even close. These are FAA "quotes." Just like saying that all of the controllers make 200K...after they add in your medical, retirement, etc.

Everyone is bitching about the pay though... after being paid dirt as a CFI their complaints fall upon deaf ears by me.
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I'd have to agree with a previous poster about the pay being better than what some of us are currently dealing with...

Being OTS after completing the OKC training I will start at $33,100 plus locality, so let's assume (yeah yeah A$$ out of u & me, haha :sarcasm:) I don't go to a big city, and I am stationed at a level 7 (chosen cause it's the middle of the road). So I start my ATC career at $37,462 (including the 13.18% locality). Let's say there is a shortage of trainers and it takes a full year before I even start training and then it takes me 4 more years to complete my ATC training. So in 5 years I am finally at the top of my level 7 pay scale plus locality I am making $53,534 (this is if nothing changes, no increase in locality pay, no base pay increase, no level increase/decrease). Plus I am getting health insurace, retirement, paid sick/vacation days. [Just a note: I am very intelligent and I know I will get through my training faster than 95% of the other ATC trainees.]

This is an amazing prospect for me! Right now I am in school for Criminal Forensics. Everyone thinks this is some kind of really cool job but is it?

"Older" ATCS say the shift work stinks, holidays, weekends, nights...CSI is just as bad if not worse. As an ATC at least you KNOW when you have to work, as a CSI you get a phone call at 4am on Chistmas morning saying you have to go down to the river to help drag a body out of the river, forget Christmas morning with the kids, heck, forget the whole day...you are on call for at least 24 hours. And the pay: you start at $31,000 IF you are lucky and thats after you have spent 2 years working as a street police officer making $27K. The MAX pay for an officer in most locations is $64K and that's not after 5 years, it's after 10-15 years. At least as an ATC you aren't working with the scum of drug dealers, murders, and sex offenders.

This is what I had to look forward to after graduating next December, before I got an email from one of my professors about the Feb 08 OTS App. Even my prof. knew how great of an opportunity this could be!

I know a lot of us are coming into this career with blinders on (whether intentional or not). But for most of us, there is more money, freedom, and security in this job than what we currently have.

I'm glad that this site is here as a resource and the "Ask an ATC" is super helpful. But I, for one, don't mind being a "chump" in this business, I mean, someone has to be, or else there wont be anyone left in a few years. I can't wait for my opportunity to succeed in this field. Watch out world...Here I Come!! :yar:

Leighann

BTW: I've been waiting tables through college. I made $17,500 last year. No health insurace, no paid vacation, no paid sick days, and I make $3.67 an hour (which disappears in taxes) and live solely off of what people decide to leave as a tip. But what I look forward to more than anything is to never again have to ask, "French Fries or Potato Salad?"


All the FAA numbers were found at:

https://employees.faa.gov/employee_services/pay_perf/pay/media/ATSPP_pay_bands_no_locality.xls

http://faaimposedpayrules.natca.net/localityratesrev13.xls
 
Zoesmom1020 said:
I'd have to agree with a previous poster about the pay being better than what some of us are currently dealing with...
It's all subjective isn't it... You could be making two bucks a week sewing soccer balls.
Being OTS after completing the OKC training I will start at $33,100 plus locality, so let's assume (yeah yeah A$$ out of u & me, haha :sarcasm:) I don't go to a big city, and I am stationed at a level 7 (chosen cause it's the middle of the road). Imaging if you had to live off of that in LAX or SFO
So I start my ATC career at $37,462 (including the 13.18% locality). Let's say there is a shortage of trainers and it takes a full year before I even start training and then it takes me 4 more years to complete my ATC training. So in 5 years I am finally at the top of my level 7 pay scale plus locality I am making $53,534 (this is if nothing changes, no increase in locality pay, no base pay increase, no level increase/decrease). Plus I am getting health insurance you are not getting health ins. you pay a very sizable chunk of the monthly premium, retirement, 4 hours a payday to start / 12-13 vacation days a year - whoopee. You'd get more at McDonald's. Also S/L never goes up - 4 hours a payday. One good flu will help you use up ALL of your yearly S/L. Don't forget take ANY medication - ANY- and you are not going to work. Nyquil, sudifed etc. Use up A LOT of S/L that way.paid sick/vacation days. [Just a note: I am very intelligent and I know I will get through my training faster than 95% of the other ATC trainees.]

This is an amazing prospect for me! Right now I am in school for Criminal Forensics. Everyone thinks this is some kind of really cool job but is it?

"Older" ATCS say the shift work stinks, holidays, weekends, nights...CSI is just as bad if not worse. Get barely 8 hours off between shifts for 20+ years, with the intense adrenalin rushes/ups/downs/ etc and you will be a very old man by 40. Father /brother, etc. have NO gray in their beards/hair, etc. In the last year I have gone from no gray to almost 100%. Coincidence - maybe But I have worked 58 weeks in a row of OT, mostly 10 hour days, It wears you out.As an ATC at least you KNOW when you have to work, Not always, just don't answer your phone (the only way to get two days off as a CSI you get a phone call at 4am on Chistmas morning Have worked 21 of the last 22 Christmas' Every Thanksgiving and a good portion of Children's B-days and nights saying you have to go down to the river to help drag a body out of the river screw up and the CSI will be going down and dragging a couple hundred bodies that YOU have personally killed / CSI doesn't have that responsibility, forget Christmas morning with the kids, heck, forget the whole day...you are on call for at least 24 hours. And the pay: you start at $31,000 IF you are lucky and thats after you have spent 2 years working as a street police officer making $27K. The MAX pay for an officer in most locations is $64K and that's not after 5 years, it's after 10-15 years. At least as an ATC you aren't working with the scum of drug dealers, murders, and sex offenders.

This is what I had to look forward to after graduating next December, before I got an email from one of my professors about the Feb 08 OTS App. Even my prof. knew how great of an opportunity this could be!

I know a lot of us are coming into this career with blinders on (whether intentional or not). But for most of us, there is more money, freedom don't know what you quite mean about freedom in the FFA (hint - study your rear off the first few years and remember good phraseology will save your career one day/bad phraseology could end it, and security not anymore in this job than what we currently have.

I'm glad that this site is here as a resource and the "Ask an ATC" is super helpful. But I, for one, don't mind being a "chump" in this business, I mean, someone has to be, or else there wont be anyone left in a few years. I can't wait for my opportunity to succeed in this field. Watch out world...Here I Come!! :yar:

Leighann

BTW: I've been waiting tables through college. I made $17,500 last year. No health insurace, no paid vacation, no paid sick days, and I make $3.67 an hour (which disappears in taxes) and live solely off of what people decide to leave as a tip. But what I look forward to more than anything is to never again have to ask, "French Fries or Potato Salad?"


All the FAA numbers were found at:

https://employees.faa.gov/employee_services/pay_perf/pay/media/ATSPP_pay_bands_no_locality.xls

http://faaimposedpayrules.natca.net/localityratesrev13.xls
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I am new to this and could be COMPLETELY off base; however, I am not sure that the training issue has to do with IQ levels or how quickly you learn. I think the issue has to do with the amount of controllers available to train you. I personally think part of the reason for the drop out (as I have read it everywhere that I can on the web) has to do with the fact that they aren't getting trained as fast as they would like to and they feel like it is wasting time and their intelligence...hence the frustration:banghead:

As for the pay..I am with you on that. If you are hired into the FAA making more than what you are currently making...doesn't seem as bad as other career choices.
 
LAX is an 11 and has 25.26% locality pay. So after you are finished training you make $88,057 (again with no increase in any pay). SFO is a 9 and ends up at $76,311 (with a 32.53% locality pay). Big difference from a level 7 13.18% I used in the example.

Thank you for making my point about sick pay, retirement, and health insurance. None of which are offered where I currently work.

CSI work 12 hour shifts on the job and rotating 24 hour on call shifts, again, thank you for making my point.

I am not saying IQ has anything to do with this job, there are a lot of people with high IQs who cant tie their shoes...but intelligence and confidence play a role in how well you do any job, and from what I have heard from other ATCS, especially in this field.

For most of us, money = freedom. Make more money get more freedom. I already know that 50+ hrs a week is a possibility with this job, but it will still allow me more time with my family than working in CSI (where there are more hours) or waiting tables (where there is less money).

Neither that post, nor this one, were meant to cause bunches of trouble or bickering, I just see a lot of negativity amongst current ATCS, especially he ones who have been working for many years. I am just trying to explain where a lot of us are coming from.

Anyone planning on a future in this field would do well to look at all the websites available, including faafollies.com and themainbang.com, make their own decisions about where the organization is going, and choose their career path from there. And those of us who have read all the negatives with the positives aren't trying to cause issues by sticking with the FAA, I think most of us have a desire to get in and make things better.

As for the white hair in the beard...I hope not, Italians are known for being hairy...but I'm a woman! :)
 
teetee said:
As for the pay..I am with you on that. If you are hired into the FAA making more than what you are currently making...doesn't seem as bad as other career choices.
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For the LAST time. Please do not take this job if you are doing it for money. You have to have an absolute lust for air traffic/aviation to put yourself through the daily grind. You will never be rich and if you are doing this for the money then you will miserable. Certainly not worth the years of training and beatings you take for the amount of money you make. (hey I rhymed)

Do it for the absolute love of aviation and ATC.
 
I want to moan and groan about my current occupation's.

I work Mon-Fri 5/12's up at 4:00, home at 17:30. Every holiday weekend tack on an extra 8 hours, and an extra 50 bones! I don't get the option of overtime pay, if I work extra so what. I get 13 days gifted, not accrued, paid/sick leave each year. They don't want me to have a vacation so be it, and I can't cash it in! If i'm sick more than one day, bring a note. 6 hours of sleep is what I consider a good night. I have good benefits.

I'm done, thanks for the attention.:D
 
ATLTRACON - Well, I am the wife of a future prospective...for me it is the money ;) No seriously, for my husband (who would be doing the job)...it is the love of flight and aviation. I have researched this purely so I will be aware of what I need to plan on...what I should expect. I am glad I have learned that time off isn't the easiest to get. It helps me to be prepared to NOT get upset if things don't go how I was expecting them. Reading these forums have been the best thing for me. It helps me to see that in order for it to work, I need to be willing to give up some for my husband to be happy and have a career he wants. I want my husband happy!!!

My husband was born into an aviator family (father flies a G3, brother flies for airliner, other brother finishing up CFI) and wants an aviation career that doesn't involve flying around the country/world every day (unless it was for fun and we could be there with him). For him, this is a great compromise. Still gets to come home each night (or morning..whenever the shift ends) and he gets to climb in his own bed. We don't have to go days on ends without seeing each other. It may be odd hours but at least we will see each other for a few minutes each day. This is what he really wants...that is why I want it for him!

He isn't wanting the job surely for money, he has many reason for wanting the job (he has contemplated ATC for years...just couldn't afford the CTI school...this was a great way to do it without the school) I would like to be making a bit more money...wouldn't hear me complain :) but more than anything, I want my husband happy in his career choice. I do believe there are people that go into ATC not for money but because they WANT to be an ATC. I believe that because my husband is that way!

Zoesmom - I wasn't replying trying to make you feel I was starting trouble or bickering. I have been trying to find out the reasons for the high drop out...and one of those that I found was people got sick of sitting around waiting to start training, or training wasn't going as fast as desired. I guess what I was saying is, even though you COULD and WOULD like to finish training quicker than other trainees...without the man power, it might not be feasible to train faster. That is just my understanding of it...if I am completely off...any of you are more than free to correct me.
 
ATLTRACON said:
For the LAST time. Please do not take this job if you are doing it for money. You have to have an absolute lust for air traffic/aviation to put yourself through the daily grind. You will never be rich and if you are doing this for the money then you will miserable. Certainly not worth the years of training and beatings you take for the amount of money you make. (hey I rhymed)

Do it for the absolute love of aviation and ATC.
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While I agree with you, I know of quite a few Indy Center controllers living a nice lifestyle... Though it is in Indiana...
 
Chris_Ford said:
While I agree with you, I know of quite a few Indy Center controllers living a nice lifestyle... Though it is in Indiana...
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Chris,

I am certainly not crying poor mouth and live very comfortably, especially after having worked 58 weeks in a row of OT.

My point was, especially in the new climate of the FAA and their draconian rules and pay, Do it for the love not the money.

Cheers
 
teetee said:
ATLTRACON - Well, I am the wife of a future prospective...for me it is the money ;) No seriously, for my husband (who would be doing the job)...it is the love of flight and aviation. I have researched this purely so I will be aware of what I need to plan on...what I should expect. I am glad I have learned that time off isn't the easiest to get. It helps me to be prepared to NOT get upset if things don't go how I was expecting them. Reading these forums have been the best thing for me. It helps me to see that in order for it to work, I need to be willing to give up some for my husband to be happy and have a career he wants. I want my husband happy!!!

quote]

Very admirable, but, and I say this because my wife started with the same attitude, will you feel the same way 17 + years from now when he is working 6 days a week every week, has had Tues/Wed off for 10 years and is never home on the weekends to do things with friends. Misses children's activities either because of sched. or the fact he worked a 6-2pm then has to return at 10pm that night for another shift and is exhausted the next day.

It gets old and, for me anyway and for others I know, after years of quick turns, it is exhausting and the only thing you get done on your one day off is....sleep.

Thanks god my wife is a saint.
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ATLTRACON said:
Chris,

I am certainly not crying poor mouth and live very comfortably, especially after having worked 58 weeks in a row of OT.

My point was, especially in the new climate of the FAA and their draconian rules and pay, Do it for the love not the money.

Cheers
Click to expand...

Oh I know, I just don't want you guys to start sounding like pilots :)
 
Chris_Ford said:
While I agree with you, I know of quite a few Indy Center controllers living a nice lifestyle... Though it is in Indiana...
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Who do you know? That's where my dad works (and me too soon) and I know a few other guys he works with.

And that's a big part of why I wanted to work in Indy. It's a level 12 facility and the cost of living there is nice, plus it's my home.

I'm just glad I found a job that I absolutely love to do and get paid well to do it.
 
Max & Min salary, per pay bands

I'm looking for a current controller to answer this question...

According to the new pay bands, view here, what/who determines your pay between the max and min levels?

thank you!
 
due note that a large amount of new hires also get sent to smaller facilities. I was a CTI. Started my run before the pay cuts. back then taking on the debt to get this job didn't sound so bad. But then the pay cut happened. And then worse. I didn't get the level 12 facility that woul dhave let me pay off my loans. I had a well qualified score on the Atsat. top of my ATC classes. and i got put in a level 5 VFR tower. When i check out i get a 75c raise. will never top 50K. If nothing changes by the next contract i will be forced to find a new career. I'm trying to start a family here, and i can't even afford to put gas in my car each week. If you haven't started down the road yet i would serously consider how long you will be in debt, And that you're earning potential can end at 55 years old.
 
Elfmaze said:
due note that a large amount of new hires also get sent to smaller facilities. I was a CTI. Started my run before the pay cuts. back then taking on the debt to get this job didn't sound so bad. But then the pay cut happened. And then worse. I didn't get the level 12 facility that woul dhave let me pay off my loans. I had a well qualified score on the Atsat. top of my ATC classes. and i got put in a level 5 VFR tower. When i check out i get a 75c raise. will never top 50K. If nothing changes by the next contract i will be forced to find a new career. I'm trying to start a family here, and i can't even afford to put gas in my car each week. If you haven't started down the road yet i would serously consider how long you will be in debt, And that you're earning potential can end at 55 years old.
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You are saying that your pay including locality will never top 50K at a level 5?
 
Yes that's correct. I'm actually at a level 5 vfr tower and i won't see more than $47k (pre-tax, not incl future raises) if i stay here.
 
Zoesmom1020 said:
[Just a note: I am very intelligent and I know I will get through my training faster than 95% of the other ATC trainees.]
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Not to start a fight or anything, but how do you think this will be true when you have no air traffic experience and only scored in the 'qualified' (83.8) range on the ATSAT? It is a test to see how well you would adapt and potentially learn the air traffic control field. You can't possibly think that you will be done with training faster than 95% of other trainees when you haven't scored better or have more experience than 95% of the future trainees out there.
 
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