New AA Contract Approved
- Thread starter charlie1017
- Start date
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
How many full calendar day overnights do you guys do? My guess is that it's not a majority of your trips.
skyw82
Well-Known Member
When I was trying to figure out which way I should vote and was doing my research looked back and it was only 3 trips the whole year where a min calender day would have been an issue. I think once we get PBS it should solve most of our problems.
learhawkerbe400
Well-Known Member
On the 190 I could normally get out of all the crappy 11-12 hour 3 days. There are a decent number of them out there but between SAP and riding the bid sheet I maybe did 1 or 2 of them in the last year and a half.
skyw82
Well-Known Member
The 11 hour 3 days were made too big of an issue. The only 11 hour three days I can think of on the Airbus are those red eyes and they are mostly flown by reserves anyway since they are so horrible regardless of pay. As far as the rest of the contract, other than the excise tax that may not even be an issue when it comes into effect in 2020 I don't consider it to have any concessions.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
I'll be shocked if the excise tax is still law in 2020.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
ATN_Pilot said:
You've been around the block long enough and this isn't a knock on you, but I see this "lack of leverage" referenced many times here and even from folks in face to face conversations.
That said, can you share with us what conditions would classify as a pilot group having leverage?
#RealTalk #NoTroll
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Depends on the situation. Are you in Section 6 or not? In this case, they weren't. Therefore, very limited opportunities for leverage. Unless you have something that management needs or very much wants, you aren't going to get very far unless you have NMB assistance.
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
Won't those trips be worth 15:45, min now with the average day value? That's certainly not a true min day, but it's an ok pay improvement.
Like Todd said, you need to be in Section 6 or be holding on to something the company REALLY wants (code share language, new aircraft pay rates with no arbitration clause, scheduling rules that prevent a certain new route from happening, etc) before you hold the majority of the cards. Even during Section 6 there aren't a all that many leverage generators either. With most airline being "too big" to be released ever, the leverage doesn't come from the threat of a strike but rather the public perception that all is not well. That generates book aways which generates stock price fluctuations which scares the crap out of the Board of Directors.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Even the carriers that are too big to strike are not too big to be released. That's an important distinction. The NMB is required to consult with the White House before releasing anyone, and they have to provide them with an impact study. Those conversations aren't about a strike, they're about how to get to a deal without disrupting traffic. If the NMB works it out that they'll issue a proffer, knowing ahead of time that the White House will issue a PEB at midnight on the deadline, then they've provided the necessary leverage to get to a deal in a cooling off period that doesn't disrupt any travel. People who get all up in arms about it being "unfair" that their airline is viewed as being too big to strike are kind of missing the whole point of the process.
learhawkerbe400
Well-Known Member
It's not an average day value. It's 5:10 average DUTY period. We still have a 3.5:1 trip rig so those trips will now pay either 10:20 or whatever the rig gives you. Or they will pay block time if that's higher, obviously.
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
Oh. I thought it was average DAY not DUTY. That sucks.
SpiceWeasel
Tre Kronor
I heard a rumor that the 717 is classified as a Group 1 aircraft under the JCBA?
What's with pay-banding anyway?
What's with pay-banding anyway?
learhawkerbe400
Well-Known Member
Did we get 717s that I don't know of?
L-16B
Well-Known Member
Nope but if we did they would pay as group I aircraft. Very sad.
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
Maybe, maybe not. It's not a named aircraft in your grouping chart so it comes down to seat number. If they have less than 118 seats they will be Group I, otherwise they would have to be named (and probably end up in Group II). Delta operates theirs with 110. Qantas has 110 in some and 125 in others. SAS has 115 in theirs. Hawaiian has a mix but is standardizing the fleet with 128 this year.
skyw82
Well-Known Member
Not true, the aircraft have to be named in each band.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Folks, there is no availability of 717s. If Hawaiian ever wants to get rid of theirs, Richard Anderson will scoop them up so quick that Parker's head would spin. Ain't nothing that Anderson likes more than used airplanes on the cheap.
What's hilarious is that I know a guy who is fairly close to the "Mahogany Desk" there and Doogie is still pissed at Richard.
I don't think Doogie is even on thr radar screen in Richards office.