NJA_Capt
Well-Known Member
The middle class is too busy buying things it can't afford and racking up credit card debt it can't pay off.
NetJets orders more airplanes.....again
- Thread starter NJA_Capt
- Start date
Nick
Well-Known Member
I assure you that we are in agreement about the act of intimidation not sharing similarities between a bad-personality CEO and an airline.
Despite the fact that the operational system is, at times, completely overwhelmed due to the FAA's decades of not keeping up with it, part of the problem also lies with the airlines.
I've recently seen one airline transform its most important hub into somewhat of an embarrassing situation at one part of the airport. Half the people flying into the place come in on an RJ and they connect to mainline. Well you can splurge a few thousand dollars and put yourself in business class over the ocean but you're going to spend 2-3 hours in an RJ seat that is curved the wrong way, and it is sticky, and there are pretzels ground into the carpet where your feet are and you can't even put your feet right in front of you 'cause the wall curves in.
Then the lucky passenger can listen to some hydraulic pumps in a hardstand for 55 minutes as there are no gates currently open. This connection time would have been spent in the president's club but that free time has dwindled and there could now be just a few minutes to scramble over to the next flight.
To get to the other flight is a very long line (150 people minimum) to board a bus...you must walk down stairs to get to it and it's awfully hot outside to bring your bags down those steps wearing indoor business clothing. Once per week someone takes a spill and gets hurt. The bus does not leave until every INCH of space is occupied and people are crammed into each other. It reeks of sweat and aviation ramp smells.
The bus now moves 100 yards and has to let three people out at an intermediate stop. Get your bags and step outside into the heat again, they need to get out. Now get back in. Now pick up your bags and walk up two dozen steps in the heat again. et cetera
Those are the types of things that the airlines do have control over yet changes are made for the worse without being tested and the passengers have to put up with some unreasonable stuff quite often.
I agree the system overall is running at capacity. The airlines are not to blame for groundstops and delays getting to the runway and so forth. But there are also things that they can take blame for, that the FAA does not control and that is what I meant.
Boris Badenov
This is no laughing matter.
NJACapt said:
Who's selling them the things they can't afford? Who's giving them money they'll never have any hope of paying back without rapacious life-long wage slavery penalties? I'm as disgusted as you are by the "keeping up with the Joneses" insanity middle-income people seem to be wedded to, but an oligarchy isn't a solution, it's a death sentence for America.
It's all well and good to cry "personal responsability", but when the very nature of the Republic is at stake, we can't just let em swing. It's pathetic that people with access to education have consigned themselves to be powerless (if well-fed) wal-mart greeter meat puppets, but that's not a reason to throw up our hands and get used to carrying golf clubs for middle-management swine, it's a reason to institute significant change in how the political process works, and with any luck re-establish a republican meritocracy.
Anyway. I'm hijacking your thread with my right-wing wackiness. Sorry. I'll be in the bunker if you want to discuss!
ZapBrannigan
If it ain’t a Boeing, I’m not going. No choice.
Sounds pretty left-wing to me.
Boris Badenov
This is no laughing matter.
I'd argue that traditional american conservative values were very much in favor of a vibrant, powerful, and well-educated middle class (read Jefferson or De Tocqueville). But again, we should probably start a new "class warfare" thread to discuss it.
FWIW, I'm very glad to hear that NetJets is continuing to succeed, as it's a company run (for all intents and purposes) by a very rich guy who treats his employees well, offers them a middle-class exsistence, and essentially sees them as assets rather than liabilities on a balance sheet (near as I can tell). I'm afraid that in this day and age, Mr. Buffet is the exception rather than the rule. Sorry to pee on the flowers, signing off this thread.
FWIW, I'm very glad to hear that NetJets is continuing to succeed, as it's a company run (for all intents and purposes) by a very rich guy who treats his employees well, offers them a middle-class exsistence, and essentially sees them as assets rather than liabilities on a balance sheet (near as I can tell). I'm afraid that in this day and age, Mr. Buffet is the exception rather than the rule. Sorry to pee on the flowers, signing off this thread.
blee256
Well-Known Member
Ground stops are hated by everyone. But unfortunately its something we all have to deal with. If you're flying in the NE, you almost have to expect it as a passenger. I bet the regulars do. How is a ground stop the fault of the airline? How is it considered "horrendous treatment of passengers?" it sucks, but what can the airlines do? Its completely out of there control.
The airlines might send A passenger to netjets, but I assure the number of people flocking to NetJets from the airlines is a very very small percentage. I bet its so small its statistically insignificant.
NJA_Capt
Well-Known Member
Believe it or not, it is very significant. UAL admitted it themselves in a press release in 2000 when the announced their ill fated attempt at starting Avolar (UAL's business jet division). NetJets alone flies 390,000 flights/year and in terms of number of aircraft is the second largest airline in the world. I'd say that is a pretty big dent in the major's FC seating.
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
Netjets needs the Challenger 300! 
eglplt
Well-Known Member
Netjets needs the Challenger 300!
We are getting the Hawker 4000 in a couple of months, maybe, I think, don't know!!
ZapBrannigan
If it ain’t a Boeing, I’m not going. No choice.
Riiiight. NetJets getting a Bombardier airplane. Wonder what Flexjet would think about that?
Nick
Well-Known Member
I never said groundstops are the fault of the airline.
It is part of the northeast airline experience though, and why would a frequent flyer establish an account with an airline that must bring them through that nonsense in order for the passenger to get to Europe?
If the number of people flocking to NetJets from the airlines really is a small percentage then it is probably because most of them have already made the switch!
In regards to the significance of losing passengers to NetJets -- those are the most lucrative passengers that the airlines flew. They are the ones who book a seat in first class for $20,000 round trip to Australia and don't think twice about it. When the airlines lose one of those passengers it is not the same as losing the type of people who get a coach seat for cheap on priceline.
If the airlines were to think "if we lose a few to NetJets it's no big deal"...well, there is the problem right there. The entire mentality that groundstops are acceptable is ludicrous.
Just tonight coming back to the hub (after a three day layover because the same flight was cancelled back to the hub so many days in a row) we were delayed 3 hours and then we sat right at the jetbridge for 16 minutes waiting for the gate agent to try and get someone to come over and fix something that was broken on it. Half of our plane was continuing on to Europe and many of them had already missed those flights, the remainder had a really tight connection and there we sat...marshallers didn't come out until we called for them on the radio, jetbridge not working, then they'd take the 30 minute bus ride ordeal that I typed about in the other post. That stuff adds up and results in people missing the entire first day of their planned trip.
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
There was a tad bit of sarcasm in that post. Did you detect it?
NJA+ Bombardier is like bath & cat!
falconvalley
Absentee Dad of the OOTSK, Runner, Cat Frustrator
I'd hate to break it to ya, but you seem kinda confused. NetJets (or companies of the like) have nothing directly to do with "rich people". Nor do the airlines have anything directly to do with "poor people". Anyone who believes otherwise never sat next to a ball player on an RJ or flew a herd of ground floor managers on a King Air from HQ to a new branch office, 4 days a week for 6 months. There's a reason they call it "Fractionals".
Texasspilot
New Member
We would be pissed.
And then demand that Jasons Deli Caters our lunches.
As for the management at NJA thinking that they need to keep and treat employees well etc... you need to read some history and see what was being said just a couple of years ago. Those guys fought hard for what they have and as a result this entire portion of the industry has been lifted.
NJA_Capt
Well-Known Member
Falcon, it seems that you yourself are confused. Boris wasn't talking about rich people that fly NJA, he was talking about the rich guy that OWNS NJA.
NetJets has everything to do with rich passengers and airlines the not-so-rich. NJA doesn't offer $99 fares and airlines don't sell $25,000 tickets. I won't discuss our passenger demographics, but your analogy has a few holes.
Not sure what you are trying to imply with this statement.
Prino
Well-Known Member
that stuff aint cheap :laff:
"NetJets fractional interests start at $416,625 (price based on 2008 deliveries and subject to change) for a 1/16 interest (the equivalent of 50 hours of annual flying time) in a Hawker 400XP. Prices vary depending on the aircraft type you choose. Finance, lease and pre-owned alternatives are also available"
and you will have to buy in for minimum of 2 years
Gonzo
Well-Known Member
That price is not bad. It comes to $8,300 hour. If you have ever had to book last min tickets for a group of people and add in the time saved by not have to go a major airport I say it is a steal and a great deal for the right company.
falconvalley
Absentee Dad of the OOTSK, Runner, Cat Frustrator
Not sure what I was talking about either. I was more talking about corporate. I shouldn't fly that late and shouldn't post that late either.
IPad (10)
Well-Known Member
There is also an hourly fee and a monthly managment fee in addition to that intial buy in fee.
Alex.
