Need advice for a future at the majors

MikeD said:
UPS doesn't care much for military time in tactical jets?
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Oh contraire, Mike.:D We have a lot of single seat fighter types amongst our group. Don't ask me how they slipped through the cracks though! Stealth?:p

Seriously, We have a very eclectic group of misfits here at big brown, me included. They've hired from the commuters(Regionals), corporate, bush pilots, military (everything from AF1 guys and heavy lift to single seat fighters).

UPS recently went through a period of hiring strictly for the MD11/744 ANC domocile. They needed guys with heavy time and International experience since most senior guys on the roster weren't moving to ANC anytime soon and the scheds weren't commutable. You were going to have to move there and ANC became a very junior base flying new 744's and MD11's. Not a good combo with junior and inexperienced (relatively speaking) crews flying challenging International environments of the PacRim and ANC winters. Hence the need to hire folks with previous heavy time and experience. Most of those guys came from either flying big iron in the military to guys with previous flying time in the MD11 or 747 from other freight companies.

Once things settle down UPS will once again begin to hire from all branches of aviation. I hear FedEx likes to hire military, especially Navy folks, with a few exceptions sprinkled in. Delta was like that until the Western merger.
 
A300Capt said:
Oh contraire, Mike.:D We have a lot of single seat fighter types amongst our group. Don't ask me how they slipped through the cracks though! Stealth?:p

Seriously, We have a very eclectic group of misfits here at big brown, me included. They've hired from the commuters(Regionals), corporate, bush pilots, military (everything from AF1 guys and heavy lift to single seat fighters).

UPS recently went through a period of hiring strictly for the MD11/744 ANC domocile. They needed guys with heavy time and International experience since most senior guys on the roster weren't moving to ANC anytime soon and the scheds weren't commutable. You were going to have to move there and ANC became a very junior base flying new 744's and MD11's. Not a good combo with junior and inexperienced (relatively speaking) crews flying challenging International environments of the PacRim and ANC winters. Hence the need to hire folks with previous heavy time and experience. Most of those guys came from either flying big iron in the military to guys with previous flying time in the MD11 or 747 from other freight companies.

Once things settle down UPS will once again begin to hire from all branches of aviation. I hear FedEx likes to hire military, especially Navy folks, with a few exceptions sprinkled in. Delta was like that until the Western merger.
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Stealth.....lol :D

That's cool though, having such a diversity of backgrounds. Always fun to hear what guys have done to get to that point in their career.
 
A300Capt said:
The last hiring spree at UPS they wouldn't even look at your resume unless you had 1000 PIC in heavy jets. That's 1000 hrs PIC in something like a MD11, DC10, C17, B52, Heavy Airbus or B747 (you get the drift) time in their logbooks. International and glass cockpit experience plus a 4 yr degree was preferred.
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I guess they didn't look at the logbooks of the two USAF fighter guys I know who got hired during that timeframe.
 
Hacker15e said:
I guess they didn't look at the logbooks of the two USAF fighter guys I know who got hired during that timeframe.
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Hack,

There have always been and there will always be the few exceptions to any current rule. Sometimes all it takes is knowing the right person at the right time and place to get on board. It's called "luck" and is one of the 33 1/3% parts of the equation required to make it in this crazy business. The other two parts being "timing" and "preparations":crazy:
 
pilot602 said:
1,000 PIC and dead is worse than 1,000hrs 121 SIC time and alive. :)
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Nothing ventured, nothing gained. If I could go to the sand box and make some money, I'd quit school and go, right now, so I could pay off all of my debt very quickly ($25k of flight school student loans) then stay awhile longer to put aside money to buy a house. I have a buddy whose uncle went to the sand box to fly kingairs and made $30,000/month, one month on, one month off. Awesome.
 
Hacker15e said:
A disadvantage for what?
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There was a time when 28 was over the hill as far as major airlines were concerned. Fortunately, that went away long ago. They have show a willingness to hire into the 40s or even 50ish. With the age bumped up to 65 where they can get even more mileage out of a guy I wouldn't expect to see them change.

If I had to pick a flying partner from a category without knowing anything else about him, it'd be an older guy.

I worked with an FO (retired AF guy) who lamented that he was too old at 31 but by the time he turned 41, he was apparently just the right age.

If you look for logic in the hiring mentality of airlines, all you'll get is frustration. :banghead:
 
Hacker15e said:
I guess they didn't look at the logbooks of the two USAF fighter guys I know who got hired during that timeframe.
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Tactical time is always weighed favorably. It is well known the hierarchy of who gets those slots, so a tac person is a fairly safe bet most of the time.
 
bafanguy said:
There was a time when 28 was over the hill as far as major airlines were concerned. Fortunately, that went away long ago. They have show a willingness to hire into the 40s or even 50ish.
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Every retired military pilot is age 42 or older...and they don't seem to have any troubles getting hired (when the majors are actually hiring), hence my question.

35 certainly isn't too old for anything.
 
A300Capt said:
Hack,

There have always been and there will always be the few exceptions to any current rule. Sometimes all it takes is knowing the right person at the right time and place to get on board. It's called "luck" and is one of the 33 1/3% parts of the equation required to make it in this crazy business. The other two parts being "timing" and "preparations":crazy:
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Sure, all valid points...

I was just responding to your "they wouldn't even look at your logbook unless...", and commenting that the statement wasn't entirely true.
 
MikeD said:
Lol....I was just curious. :D I hear SWA is similar?
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SWA is the great black mystery box of all black mystery boxes vis a vis hiring, from what I hear. They've taken guys with 1001TPIC from Amflight in a 99, they've passed over guys with 10,000 hours of space shuttle time (ok, exaggerating). And vice versa. Obviously this is all hearsay, but I've heard it from a number of sources.
 
bafanguy said:
phoenix,

You've got a tough call to make. If you return to the US and Colgan at the bottom of the list, in this environment, how long before you have access to the 121 PIC time that seems to be so critical ?

There are several operators "over there" flying bigger airplanes and I'd bet you're making lots of contacts. What is the chance of getting into a job in a 737 someplace in the neighborhood? There are a few in DXB.

Maybe you'd have to get yourself a 737 type rating but it might be worth it under the circumstances. My buddy in DXB says that is 100% the case: no type...no job...no exceptions.

P.S. Please...I don't want to start any PFT slagging match. I'm vehemently against that here in the States but we're not talking about the States in this context...and it's an ugly world out there these days where the facts of life probably overrule other considerations. :bandit:

P.P.S. I also understand no one will slide into a captain job with no time in type but a year in the right seat, at the amount they work people there, should fill that square nicely.
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^^+1

It's hard, and I totally understand your feeling of being able to stay there for another year or not but it really is an easy decision. Remember ICAO rules for PIC is different than FAA so depending on what you flew in Colgan, you might be more valuable than you think. The time does seem to fly by fast here but sure doesn't feel like it.

=Jason-
 
bafanguy said:
Maybe you'd have to get yourself a 737 type rating but it might be worth it under the circumstances. My buddy in DXB says that is 100% the case: no type...no job...no exceptions.
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When in Rome... Seriously, the US is probably the most oversaturated pilot market in the world. Why throw away the chance to vastly improve your future so you can come back and work in the trenches with the possibility of furlough hanging over your head? Wanna trade? I'd give my eye teeth to be making a lot of money overseas and making contacts that could lead to better things. Even steven, you take my job, I take yours, and your flak jacket. ;)
 
Hi all,

Hiring is a wonky thing. Definately a "flavor of the month" thing goes on.

FWIW, in the hiring binge of 96-01, NWA hired mostly civil guys from what I saw. Out of 18, only 3 guys in my class were previous mil, and all of those guys also had civ experience.

I'd say it was no more than a 50-50 split when they did hire a lot. I was an instructor on the 727, and worked with new hires almost exclusively, and I could count the military guys I trained on one hand, and the number of military guys I did OE for on the other.

Richman
 
phoenix 23684 said:
Hey thanks for the replies,

Yeah the no house payment is very tempting, right now I'm already debt-free except the house. I don't think I'll have a problem staying and flying the King Air, the only downside is well a year here, not much to do except work 7 days a week.

I know the majors will take sometime to open back up due to the very qualified surplus of pilots, plus the estate of the economy. I just want to make sure that turbine PIC from a King Air will be enough to fill that requirement.

M
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You've got to be a Dave Ramsey listener! Or maybe just a smart person haha. I'm currently working on my total money makeover, and am striving to be debt free (training loan debt). That is awesome you are debt free except for the house. Sure frees up a lot of money huh?
 
Yeah this is a hard desicion to make,

I'm concerned with my age in the sense that long term I will be in a dissadvantage for lines/equipment, etc, of course once I make it to the majors.

I'm waiting to hear what the plan is for the new contract in October to decide what will my course of action be. Money is great, for sure, but it does get lonely here. One option will be 90 on 90 off so basically only working 6 months a year.

I'll keep everyone posted on what happens as well if I hear of pilot openings here.
 
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