Plus, if 1000 feet is scary, they’re really not going to like the enroute structure! Ha!
Near mid-air collision at Syracuse involving a Delta and American airliners
- Thread starter srleslie
- Start date
GroundPilot
Well-Known Member
How is 2 airplanes being cleared to land/takeoff on the same runway at the same time sensational? I guess the recent Southwest incidents are nothing more than sensational headlines, no story there.
JordanD
Here so I don’t get fined
Don’t fly into ORD then. Takeoff clearance before the person ahead of you is at V1 is SOP.
That's not what happened here. This was a pretty close call
ChasenSFO
hen teaser
I think Hawaiian going off the runway in OGG is probably a bigger deal than this and it doesn't even have a thread. I have to agree that with no video, this isn't viral news, ATC screwed up the PSA pilots caught it, ATC sent them around. Plus it was VMC so I doubt PSA ever lost sight of Endeavor at all. So, yeah it's a story/incident but it's not like the AUS or LGA Southwest go around incidents lol.
I was talking about the recent Lihue and OK City incidents but point taken.
killbilly
Vocals, Lyrics, Triangle, Washboard, Kittens
There is video - someone got a dashcam of it.
ChasenSFO
hen teaser
Oh yeah those were worse for sure lol, The OKC one is just weird, tho it seems to happen fairly often (a few incidents a year in global airline ops) for whatever reason in IFR. I think Emirates got really low somewhere in the US with an A380 on approach in the last few years? Ones I've read about that aren't visual approaches usually involve FMC magic that erased some restrictions and the autopilot altitude being set to some lower altitude meant to be reached gradually in VNAV then cruising over elevated terrain. Doesn't seem to be the case in OKC obviously, but humans will be human.
Fortunately, the checks and balances seem to work almost always tho. As intended. The big danger there obviously is some tall radio tower or obstruction, so of course it's always very serious when a scheduled flight is somewhere it shouldn't be. Or after a close call like LIH where a crew is falling behind an airplane at a critical time.
One thing is for sure tho; our luck is probably going to run out soon here in the US of A.
ERfly
Well-Known Member
Also PHX.
"Report the 737 ahead of you insight."
"You mean the one just crossing the hold short line?"
ChasenSFO
hen teaser
In the early AM where SFO is still using the noise abatement SID off the 01s, OAK 30 departures cause conflict so OAK gets priority and a long line of departures before 7AM usually builds up at SFO while OAK launches the RONs and last of the cargo rush. Some of the SFO controllers will rattle off "report the traffic ahead in sight" to a line of 5 or 6 planes on the taxiway at a time and then basically have them all do rolling takeoffs with visual separation. Most pilots seem to understand what's going on, but I'd often hear one or two come on almost upset like it's some stupid game and a ridiculous request and ATC has to spell it out for them haha.
"The 737 in front of us who's like 4th in line? Yeah, we obviously see him. Why are we doing this?".
"Maintain visual separation from that 737 on departure".
"From the guy on the taxiway?"
As a PPL in a Cessna I very quickly understood that haha, you'd think everyone with a 121 career has done it.
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Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
Good ol niite3
Stone Cold
Well-Known Member
Nope, in over 20 years of professional flying, I've never done that, and would question the instruction also. Sorry, negative contact...looking. I don't call traffic in sight. It always adds to our job, and there is never a benefit to us. All it does is relieve the burden on ATC, and add liability on us.
PHX was bad with that, I never accepted it because now you’re responsible for a lot of crap you’re not paying attention to on takeoff
I love visual separation, that way I can maneuver as I need to and ATC stops bothering me with traffic calls and/or vectors.
ChasenSFO
hen teaser
Interesting as I've always found it to increase my own workload if I don't see traffic, and making it known that I'm willing to make ATC's life easier when simple\efficent to do so will, in turn, usually make my life easier while on that frequency. Plus I always want to see traffic that is called out to me if possible, especially since I usually operate VFR in Class B/C airspace most of my flights lol. IFR, I'd say it still matters as it can easily lead to vectors for you or someone else or might prolong an approach clearance with extra steps. As long as it is safe, I always feel efficiency is king in a busy terminal environment, and I always try to play my part the best I can in keeping things rolling and having extra SA. That said, I don't pretend to have stuff in sight to make their job easier lol.
Exactly how I feel, if I find the traffic, I usually just get to continue doing what I was doing vs plan B and more calls/visual scanning.
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BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
How confident are you that it's the right traffic?
ChasenSFO
hen teaser
If I'm not I don't report it in sight? That's part of why if its airline traffic as I do a lot of TOL at SJC, I say I see "Southwest/United/SkyWest" ect in sight instead of just "traffic" or "the 737" as ATC called it. Or as there are often multiple Southwest 737s or SkyWest E175s on approach in sequence, I may say "Southwest over the SAP Center" or "SkyWest over SJSU" to be a bit more specific without getting long winded, an extra chance for them to clear up me being dumb. Seems pretty normal for pilots to call traffic in sight, I hear it each and every time I fly unless its the middle of the night lol.
Brings up a funny from a few flights ago: "Southwest over the homeless encampment or downtown?". "The one over downtown". "OK, Southwest over the OTHER homeless encampment in sight".
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Stone Cold
Well-Known Member
In a helo by myself or with one other officer, absolutely. In a 747 with multiple crew members, after a long day, possibly 24 hour duty day, nope, nope, nope. Negative contact…looking.