Navy Pilot Recruiting Question

[Turbolag]

Hey everyone.

I am finishing up my degree, and I received an email on the college site from a Navy recruiter about an opening for a Navy pilot or Naval Flight Officer.

I am 34 and thought I was over the age limit to apply, so, I did a little research and saw the age limit was 29. However, the recruiter told me the age limit has been increased to 32 and there are age waivers.

Also, I take a medication for an anxiety disorder. It is a small dose and does not affect my ability to operate equipment. My doctor told me I could get an all clear letter from them if required.

I am not sure how seriously I am taking this opening, but just for fun, would I have any shot at obtaining a pilot position?

Thanks.

 

[///AMG]

You never know unless you try. I have lost track of where the age limits lie currently, but I believe I heard a similar (if not the same) number recently. Not knowing anything else about you, I'd imagine the anxiety meds would be the longest pole in the tent. Long story short, an "all clear" letter from your current doc is probably a useful piece of supporting documentation, but NAMI (the USN version of FAA aerospace medical) would evaluate your specifics and make their own determination. Only a USN flight doc would be able to make that determination. There are some older copies of the NAMI aeromedical waiver guide floating around online, but anything other than the most current one could potentially be dated/bad gouge. I seem to remember any use (i.e. anytime in your life) of anxiety meds and similar classes of meds being disqualifying, but I have no idea if that is still the case. If it is something you are interested in, I'd say it is worth a shot. Realize that this isn't really equivalent to a specific "opening" with a civilian employer. Each year they need a certain amount of student aviators to fulfill the needs of the fleet a couple years down the road. This number varies by year and even by month. They're just casting a wide net to try and catch qualified folks. You'll never know if you are qualified unless you submit an application.

 

[Turbolag]

You never know unless you try. I have lost track of where the age limits lie currently, but I believe I heard a similar (if not the same) number recently. Not knowing anything else about you, I'd imagine the anxiety meds would be the longest pole in the tent. Long story short, an "all clear" letter from your current doc is probably a useful piece of supporting documentation, but NAMI (the USN version of FAA aerospace medical) would evaluate your specifics and make their own determination. Only a USN flight doc would be able to make that determination. There are some older copies of the NAMI aeromedical waiver guide floating around online, but anything other than the most current one could potentially be dated/bad gouge. I seem to remember any use (i.e. anytime in your life) of anxiety meds and similar classes of meds being disqualifying, but I have no idea if that is still the case. If it is something you are interested in, I'd say it is worth a shot. Realize that this isn't really equivalent to a specific "opening" with a civilian employer. Each year they need a certain amount of student aviators to fulfill the needs of the fleet a couple years down the road. This number varies by year and even by month. They're just casting a wide net to try and catch qualified folks. You'll never know if you are qualified unless you submit an application.

Thanks for the reply man.

If I submit my application, am I legally bound to anything? I was always told not to sign anything when visiting a recruiter. Just don’t want to sign up for something accidentally.

The recruiter said we could have a meeting. Could I meet with them and run these questions by them?

Thank you again.

 

[///AMG]

You wouldn't be bound to any obligation for simply submitting an app or meeting with a recruiter......we don't hit drunks in the bar over the head and drag them off to indentured sea servitude anymore But yes, I would absolutely have a meeting with them if you are interested, and these would all be normal questions for folks to ask. Happy to answer any more questions you have about the career or whatnot. My experience with the app process is dated and I was an NROTC guy to boot, but some things are pretty universal and remain unchanged over the years.

 

[n57flyguy]

You wouldn't be bound to any obligation for simply submitting an app or meeting with a recruiter......we don't hit drunks in the bar over the head and drag them off to indentured sea servitude anymore

Really is a new Navy, huh?

 

[Turbolag]

You wouldn't be bound to any obligation for simply submitting an app or meeting with a recruiter......we don't hit drunks in the bar over the head and drag them off to indentured sea servitude anymore But yes, I would absolutely have a meeting with them if you are interested, and these would all be normal questions for folks to ask. Happy to answer any more questions you have about the career or whatnot. My experience with the app process is dated and I was an NROTC guy to boot, but some things are pretty universal and remain unchanged over the years.

Thanks for the information. I feel better about the process now.

 

[Turbolag]

You never know unless you try. I have lost track of where the age limits lie currently, but I believe I heard a similar (if not the same) number recently. Not knowing anything else about you, I'd imagine the anxiety meds would be the longest pole in the tent. Long story short, an "all clear" letter from your current doc is probably a useful piece of supporting documentation, but NAMI (the USN version of FAA aerospace medical) would evaluate your specifics and make their own determination. Only a USN flight doc would be able to make that determination. There are some older copies of the NAMI aeromedical waiver guide floating around online, but anything other than the most current one could potentially be dated/bad gouge. I seem to remember any use (i.e. anytime in your life) of anxiety meds and similar classes of meds being disqualifying, but I have no idea if that is still the case. If it is something you are interested in, I'd say it is worth a shot. Realize that this isn't really equivalent to a specific "opening" with a civilian employer. Each year they need a certain amount of student aviators to fulfill the needs of the fleet a couple years down the road. This number varies by year and even by month. They're just casting a wide net to try and catch qualified folks. You'll never know if you are qualified unless you submit an application.

So I sent the recruiter a message to learn more about the position. I asked if we could talk on the phone.

I'm pretty sure my medication and condition disqualify me, but I want to know for sure.... I already know the answer, but it doesn't hurt to try I guess.

The main question I want to ask is about my medication and medical history and how I understand it disqualifies me. I want to ask if there is anything I can do.

Would visiting a flight Dr. help any?

Any suggestions? Is there anything I should not talk about during the interview?

Also, I have been pretty set on trying to join the corporate world after college, but this was fun to entertain the thought. Just for fun, if I were able to be cleared to fly and chose to fly commercially, would joining the military help me afterwards in landing a job at Fedex or UPS, or would I be better off just going the FBO route and building time at my own pace? To me, freight is more appealing. I understand that I would have to join the regionals first, but would military flying help make your resume more attractive?

Again, these are just thoughts for right now. Nothing serious. I enjoy hearing everyone's feedback and learning more.

Thank you.

 

[woodreau]

If you are asking whether being a non aviation military helps in getting on with a cargo/legacy carrier?

No. The employer gets to check the “I hired a veteran” box but it doesn’t help you get to a cargo/legacy carrier without having to do the regional / corporate rat race.

only the heavy/tanker/pointy end drivers get to bypass the regionals and go direct to destination career air carrier.

just being former military doesn’t cause you to stand out/differentiate you from anyone else who has served in the military.

maybe if your mom dad uncle aunt or other family member works for the carrier you can try that connection to bypass.

 

[Turbolag]

If you are asking whether being a non aviation military helps in getting on with a cargo/legacy carrier?

No. The employer gets to check the “I hired a veteran” box but it doesn’t help you get to a cargo/legacy carrier without having to do the regional / corporate rat race.

only the heavy/tanker/pointy end drivers get to bypass the regionals and go direct to destination career air carrier.

just being former military doesn’t cause you to stand out/differentiate you from anyone else who has served in the military.

maybe if your mom dad uncle aunt or other family member works for the carrier you can try that connection to bypass.

Sorry. I forgot to put pilot in front of that. My full question was does a military pilot position give you a boost in your career as opposed to just the FBO route?

 

[///AMG]

Short answer, yes and no. You will likely be marketable to the majors with fewer hours coming from mil flying, and most guys in heavies and fighters don't have to spend any time at the regionals on the way. But you are also signing up to do the military thing for 10+ years as a pilot. In that time, a lot of civilian only guys/gals go from being new certificate holders to sitting in the right seat at a major airline, depending on airline growth/hiring/economy/etc. They make a lot less money (before the majors) than their mil pilot buddies, but they also don't have to deploy for 10-12 months to the desert/ocean every few years. I'd say there are pros and cons to either route. I'm happy with what I did, but I would not have made it if my reason for joining was that I only wanted to use it as a stepping stone to airline flying.

As for the recruiter, up to you. If you want to mention it and get his/her opinion, I'm sure that is fine. If you wanted to wait until your medical screening during the application process, that is fine too. Or it might come up before that. Obviously be honest if the question is asked.

Unfortunately you won't be able to see a Navy flight doc outside of official, sanctioned purposes. You wouldn't even be able to get on base, let alone make an appointment on your own.

 

[woodreau]

lets say you are physically/medically qualified to go Into naval aviation.

you’ll need to make sure you get tracked into the naval aviator pipeline and not naval flight officer pipeline You can switch from naval flight officer to naval aviator, but you have to submit a package and go before a selection board to do that. Naval flight officers do get some stick time, I think to the point of solo, but after that, they get tracked into other things which do not involve manipulating controls to fly an aircraft. In other words flight time airlines are not interested in.

just being a naval aviator however isn’t enough to get you into an airline career afterwards, you’ll need to be a fighter guy or a P-8/E-6/E-2/C-2 driver to be able to do that. The navy has requirements for helos and Osprey pilots. Im not up to speed on the breakdown of where naval aviators go, but the number of helo/Osprey pilots required is not insignificant.

I’m not sure how airlines view tilt rotor time.

so those are some things to think about.

edit: to give you some perspective, I left the navy as a ship driver (non aviator military) at 32 to become an airline pilot. military pilots (like my ROTC buddy who flew P-3s) going to the airlines are also leaving around that point (32) at the end of their military service obligation. I got to do the regional airline thing, he got hired by jetBlue, You’re looking into going in to naval aviation at 34. So assuming you do everything right you’re looking at 44 before being able to do anything with a commercial airline career.

 

[Turbolag]

Short answer, yes and no. You will likely be marketable to the majors with fewer hours coming from mil flying, and most guys in heavies and fighters don't have to spend any time at the regionals on the way. But you are also signing up to do the military thing for 10+ years as a pilot. In that time, a lot of civilian only guys/gals go from being new certificate holders to sitting in the right seat at a major airline, depending on airline growth/hiring/economy/etc. They make a lot less money (before the majors) than their mil pilot buddies, but they also don't have to deploy for 10-12 months to the desert/ocean every few years. I'd say there are pros and cons to either route. I'm happy with what I did, but I would not have made it if my reason for joining was that I only wanted to use it as a stepping stone to airline flying.

As for the recruiter, up to you. If you want to mention it and get his/her opinion, I'm sure that is fine. If you wanted to wait until your medical screening during the application process, that is fine too. Or it might come up before that. Obviously be honest if the question is asked.

Unfortunately you won't be able to see a Navy flight doc outside of official, sanctioned purposes. You wouldn't even be able to get on base, let alone make an appointment on your own.

Thanks for the reply AMG. I did not know the commitment was for 10 years. I thought it was for 4 years.

If you don't mind me asking, what planes did you fly?

 

[Turbolag]

lets say you are physically/medically qualified to go Into naval aviation.

you’ll need to make sure you get tracked into the naval aviator pipeline and not naval flight officer pipeline You can switch from naval flight officer to naval aviator, but you have to submit a package and go before a selection board to do that. Naval flight officers do get some stick time, I think to the point of solo, but after that, they get tracked into other things which do not involve manipulating controls to fly an aircraft. In other words flight time airlines are not interested in.

just being a naval aviator however isn’t enough to get you into an airline career afterwards, you’ll need to be a fighter guy or a P-8/E-6/E-2/C-2 driver to be able to do that. The navy has requirements for helos and Osprey pilots. Im not up to speed on the breakdown of where naval aviators go, but the number of helo/Osprey pilots required is not insignificant.

I’m not sure how airlines view tilt rotor time.

so those are some things to think about.

edit: to give you some perspective, I left the navy as a ship driver (non aviator military) at 32 to become an airline pilot. military pilots (like my ROTC buddy who flew P-3s) going to the airlines are also leaving around that point (32) at the end of their military service obligation. I got to do the regional airline thing, he got hired by jetBlue, You’re looking into going in to naval aviation at 34. So assuming you do everything right you’re looking at 44 before being able to do anything with a commercial airline career.

Thanks for the reply. Man I had no idea the requirement was 10 years. I thought it was 4 years. I guess 34 is a little late to be going in. I am thinking I want to stay with my current goal and try to go to the corporate world.

 

[Turbolag]

Thanks for the replies guys. I enjoyed reading your responses.

 

[MikeD]

Yup, the military wants their time out of you for the training. 10 years post graduation from initial training. And in that 10 years, not all of it will necessarily be flying. There’s staff and non-flying assignments. If one gets a medical issue that grounds them, they still owe the rest of that 10 years doing some non-flying assignment.

 

[Turbolag]

Yup, the military wants their time out of you for the training. 10 years post graduation from initial training. And in that 10 years, not all of it will necessarily be flying. There’s staff and non-flying assignments. If one gets a medical issue that grounds them, they still owe the rest of that 10 years doing some non-flying assignment.

Wow. That is a lot to think about before enrolling.

Where would you end up if you could not hold a medical anymore or were cut from flight school?

 

[woodreau]

The service obligation for all new officer accessions into the Navy is 8 years. For naval aviators it is 8 years active service after getting your wings - which take you about 2 years to earn - which means you’re at 10 years before the end of your service obligation.

nuclear trained officers is 6 years active service after which point the remaining service obligation of 2 years can be served in the Navy Reserve.

surface officers is 4 years active with the remaining 4 years in the Navy Reserve.

don’t know about SEALs or Spec Ops.

The difference between you going into the Navy at 34 and getting out at 10 years and becoming an airline pilot at 44 vs an aviator that retires after 20 years and becomes an airline pilot at 42 is that the 20 year guy has retirement income while transitioning to an airline pilot career if that’s what they want to do. all you’ll have are memories, experiences, stories, and friendships like anyone else in the military.

if you are no longer physically qualified to fly, the Navy has a plethora of billets that require an officer to fill but not require you to be physically qualified to fly…. Like Safety Officer, there are hundreds of jobs… that are unfilled

when we were in Afghanistan. Lots of billets for officers to be Camp Commandant of an Army FOB making sure the portapotties were cleaned every day…

But most likely if you drop out of flight school you’ll go before a redesignation board and most likely you’ll end up being a surface officer. But that’s 25 years ago. Don’t know what they’ll do today.

 

[///AMG]

Thanks for the reply AMG. I did not know the commitment was for 10 years. I thought it was for 4 years.

If you don't mind me asking, what planes did you fly?

Like others have said, there is some nuance to the 10 year figure, but that's what it is on average for a pilot/1310, taking the wings + 8 year initial obligation and ~2 years of flight school into account. What mike said is also true; you aren't guaranteed to fly that whole time. Plenty of folks who fly for one tour and never make it back to the cockpit. I did 12 years on active duty before I decided I needed to move onto different things, and was fortunate to stay in the cockpit the entire time. I flew the F/A-18A-D, F-16 and F/A-18E/F on active duty. I fly the EA-18G now in the reserves.

 

[Turbolag]

The difference between you going into the Navy at 34 and getting out at 10 years and becoming an airline pilot at 44 vs an aviator that retires after 20 years and becomes an airline pilot at 42 is that the 20 year guy has retirement income while transitioning to an airline pilot career if that’s what they want to do. all you’ll have are memories, experiences, stories, and friendships like anyone else in the military.

This scenario is just what I have been thinking about for the past year or so. My original plan while I was in school was to finish my degree and go to work in that field for 15-20 years, live frugally and try to get cleared to fly and build time.

After the 15-20 years I wanted to retire from the industry and try to find an aviation job. This would allow me to go into it with funds in the bank already.

I am not sure what type of flying job I was planning on. I am pulled between fixed wing and rotor wing. I think it would be fun to fly for the airlines for a year or two after retirement just to get it out of my system.

But to add to this, have you guys every watched christmas tree logging? I would love to do this! Plus it is seasonal, so it would just be part time I think.

And then along came this message on my school account and made me start to think about it.

 

[Turbolag]

I flew the F/A-18A-D, F-16 and F/A-18E/F on active duty. I fly the EA-18G now in the reserves.

Man this sounds awesome. I can't even imagine what its like to fly in any of those planes. I would love the chance to just go for a 1 hour discovery flight. I guess that's not possible is it?