I must not have been at 9E long enough to hear the "we'll get jets" speech because all I've heard is that we pilots are trying to destroy the company by asking for wages that don't require me to stand in line with the entitlement folk.Nah, management will try it the nice way first. Then, if they don't get enough suckers, they pull a TSA/GoJets.
You weren't here for the "sign this and we'll get BIGGER jets and more flying" speech? That was just in 2006. About a week after that fell through, then the "We're gonna lose the NWA flying if you don't sign this" rhetoric started.I must not have been at 9E long enough to hear the "we'll get jets" speech because all I've heard is that we pilots are trying to destroy the company by asking for wages that don't require me to stand in line with the entitlement folk.
Nope I'm pretty new. Just passed my company prob date in October. :hiya:You weren't here for the "sign this and we'll get BIGGER jets and more flying" speech? That was just in 2006. About a week after that fell through, then the "We're gonna lose the NWA flying if you don't sign this" rhetoric started.
Air Wisconsin lost its United flying because of its inability to compete with the other bidders. Our payrates were higher than average, but that in and of itself is not why we lost the UAL contract. We lost it because every other bidder could leverage the advantages of incremental growth. What they means is that, if awarded the contract, all the other carriers could hire a bunch of pilots at the bottom of their respective pay scales. While we had second and third year FO's and Third year plus Captain's, earning $35-$40, and $60-$100 an hour respectively, our competitors could go out and hire $20 an hour FO's and upgrade $55-$60 an hour captains. Do you see the huge cost advantages that our competitors had? There was no way we could ever compete with that. We never had a chance at that bid.Huh?
So you are insisting our pay never goes up? Or we start off at the top of the pay scale for every one? That isn't the point of the discussion and it really doesn't make any sense? Like any management would ever sign off on a contract that have every one peaked on the payscale. Thats insane. If you lower the payscale with what you are suggesting then you are hurting the guys at the peak who have earned it.
National Longevity makes sense from the stand point that if you pay dues to your union for X amount of years and then go to the bottom of another carrier for reasons beyond your control the union helps get you better pay to start over, but you go to the bottom of the senority list. You picked your pony and she broke down why should some one else move back at their company for you?
Yeah and a National Seniority list is totally feasible. At least he's thinking outside the box. Putting our heads in the sand and wishing for a return of the good ol days or peddling ideas that are about 50 years too late is not the solution either.
If it were someone else posting the idea, then I would have, but this Skydog guy is getting on my nerves.Might help some of the less "in-the-know" readers if you would elaborate just a tad.
You're correct, it's probably not. I thought the UAL MEC was really reaching when they decided to push this idea. I think it's largely a waste of time.Yeah and a National Seniority list is totally feasible.
Fine, I'll bite. There are several reasons that this is a bad idea:I'm telling you why we lost or contract at Air Wisconsin, and a way I think it can be prevented in the future. You're always quick with the "that's a bad idea" and "that won't work," but you never get around to explaining why. Nor do you offer an alternative solution. A change in bargaining strategy might work better than sitting around calling for unity and hoping that the other guy will do something to raise the bar.
Man I can't believe some of the statements I've heard PNCL management say. Does your management even have a lick of compassion for their employees?:banghead:You weren't here for the "sign this and we'll get BIGGER jets and more flying" speech? That was just in 2006. About a week after that fell through, then the "We're gonna lose the NWA flying if you don't sign this" rhetoric started.
:yeahthat:Nope. Not one.
With all the memos we've gotten.... we probably could burn the airline down. :laff::yeahthat:
We're all a cost to be reduced and nothing more. They'll pit other employee groups against us and try to convince them that our sole purpose is to burn the airline down rather than work with other groups to make the airline better. Working here has really opened my eyes to how good I had it working on the ramp at SWA. Heck, I even felt more valued as a ramp worker at XJT than I do as a pilot here.
And I said, I don't care if they lay me off either, because I told, I told Bill that if they move my desk one more time, then, then I'm, I'm quitting, I'm going to quit. And, and I told Don too, because they've moved my desk four times already this year, and I used to be over by the window, and I could see the squirrels, and they were married, but then, they switched from the Swingline to the Boston stapler, but I kept my Swingline stapler because it didn't bind up as much, and I kept the staples for the Swingline stapler and it's not okay because if they take my stapler then I'll set the building on fire...