NAFI/SAFE/Master Instructor chaos

jrh

Well-Known Member
I know there aren't many NAFI members here, but does anyone have any predictions how this chaos is going to end?

I thought it was all going to fade away a month ago. NAFI would administrate the Master Instructor program in-house, and anyone who didn't like it could join SAFE.

Yesterday afternoon I received a bulk e-mail from Rich Stowell detailing all the legal actions the Hills are trying to take against NAFI for using "intellectual property" developed by the Hills for the Master Instructor program.

What a mess. Why can't we all just get along? I hope this doesn't cancel the "Meet the Masters" breakfast at Oshkosh.... ;)
 
I don't care for NAFI Master CFI designation much. The criteria are convoluted, at best, and tailored in an interesting manner - to say the least.

For example:

I passed X number of students in 12 months.
I built an elaborate web page supplying a whole berth of information.
I gave multiple seminars to the local EAA club.
I created a CBT course on the GPS 430/530 and G1000.
I worked with the local community for volunteering flights to youth programs to generate interest.
I offered services for Angel Flight.
I consulted for the airport community board of directors as they were fighting with the local homeowners over various issues.
I acquired an additional flight instructor rating.

This is the short list.


YET - I did not meet the criteria to be eligible as a Master CFI although the local CFI's, FSDO, and students agreed that I was one of the more dedicated, compassionate, a "teacher-type" flight instructors in the area.

In 4 years NAFI hasn't done anything for me, personally, other than send me Flying Magazine which I don't read because I think J Mac McClellen is an ass.
 
I don't care for NAFI Master CFI designation much. The criteria are convoluted, at best, and tailored in an interesting manner - to say the least.

For example:

I passed X number of students in 12 months.
I built an elaborate web page supplying a whole berth of information.
I gave multiple seminars to the local EAA club.
I created a CBT course on the GPS 430/530 and G1000.
I worked with the local community for volunteering flights to youth programs to generate interest.
I offered services for Angel Flight.
I consulted for the airport community board of directors as they were fighting with the local homeowners over various issues.
I acquired an additional flight instructor rating.

This is the short list.


YET - I did not meet the criteria to be eligible as a Master CFI although the local CFI's, FSDO, and students agreed that I was one of the more dedicated, compassionate, a "teacher-type" flight instructors in the area.

In 4 years NAFI hasn't done anything for me, personally, other than send me Flying Magazine which I don't read because I think J Mac McClellen is an ass.

Very interesting! I am just about ready to join NAFI. Why don't you guys go above and beyond and talk me out of it? I wonder, from the outside looking in it does look like a waste of time and money.

Any insights?
 
Yeah, I'm getting really sick of all this nonsense. I'm starting to dread the mail and email I get from NAFI...
 
It gonna end with more people at SAFE for the time being and NAFI will mull around for a few years. Who knows, SAFE may end up with ties to EAA but not near as strong as NAFI has been. Be nice once people are able to actually get some work done for the CFI community again...if at all.
 
YET - I did not meet the criteria to be eligible as a Master CFI although the local CFI's, FSDO, and students agreed that I was one of the more dedicated, compassionate, a "teacher-type" flight instructors in the area.

From everything I can tell, you met the criteria. Did you actually apply and get rejected? If so, what reason did they give?

The only thing I can see that *might* have been a problem would be if you held your CFI ticket for less than 2 years or did not have any way to document the work you'd done.

My portfolio looked similar to yours and breezed through on the first try.
 
Very interesting! I am just about ready to join NAFI. Why don't you guys go above and beyond and talk me out of it? I wonder, from the outside looking in it does look like a waste of time and money.

Any insights?

NAFI as an organization does very little for the flight instructing community, IMO.

The Master Instructor credential, on the other hand, can be very beneficial to an individual instructor I believe.

The Master CFI proves a person has an ongoing, serious involvement with working as an instructor. To meet all the requirements, a person pretty much has to be a full time or very busy part time instructor. They must have taught a minimum of 240 flight/classroom hours in the past 24 months and been involved with community service, material publishing, and personal involvement with the aviation community for a minimum of another 240 hours in the past two years.

It is not a "once in a lifetime" award like the Gold Seal. Each instructor has to resubmit a portfolio of their accomplishments and get revalidated as a Master CFI every two years, so you don't get a bunch of "has beens" hanging around the airport marketing themselves as experts when they only teach 5 hours/month.

A person also has to have held their CFI ticket for a minimum of at least two years, and sometimes four years (depending on how many signoffs they've given) to be eligible for a Master CFI. This requirement pretty much eliminates the "time building" CFI crowd because they've all gone to the airlines before they become eligible.

So when I hear a person is a Master CFI, they instantly get respect in my book. Not that I look down on other CFIs, but I know that if a person has gone to the trouble of becoming a Master, they're probably a pretty decent teacher.

From a professional standpoint, I see two main advantages to becoming a Master. First, networking. A lot of the big names in flight training world are Master CFIs. For a person who is really serious about making a good living as a full time instructor, nothing but good can come from associating with other CFIs who are writing books, giving seminars, owning flight schools, etc. Rich Stowell is considered an authority in the aerobatics world, Max Trescott is an expert with glass panel training, Greg Koontz runs his own flight school, Arlynn McMahon writes books and magazine articles, etc...these are all Master Instructors.

Second, when it comes to marketing yourself to prospective clients, you lend credibility to yourself by being able to say you're a Master Instructor. It doesn't matter if the person you're talking to has any clue what that means. They'll take you more seriously. I'm lucky enough to be able to say I'm one of only three Masters in the entire state of Nebraska. If I mention that to a prospective customer, it instantly elevates me to some degree over everybody else. Simply put, it's good marketing.
 
NAFI as an organization does very little for the flight instructing community, IMO.

The Master Instructor credential, on the other hand, can be very beneficial to an individual instructor I believe.

The Master CFI proves a person has an ongoing, serious involvement with working as an instructor. To meet all the requirements, a person pretty much has to be a full time or very busy part time instructor. They must have taught a minimum of 240 flight/classroom hours in the past 24 months and been involved with community service, material publishing, and personal involvement with the aviation community for a minimum of another 240 hours in the past two years.

It is not a "once in a lifetime" award like the Gold Seal. Each instructor has to resubmit a portfolio of their accomplishments and get revalidated as a Master CFI every two years, so you don't get a bunch of "has beens" hanging around the airport marketing themselves as experts when they only teach 5 hours/month.

A person also has to have held their CFI ticket for a minimum of at least two years, and sometimes four years (depending on how many signoffs they've given) to be eligible for a Master CFI. This requirement pretty much eliminates the "time building" CFI crowd because they've all gone to the airlines before they become eligible.

So when I hear a person is a Master CFI, they instantly get respect in my book. Not that I look down on other CFIs, but I know that if a person has gone to the trouble of becoming a Master, they're probably a pretty decent teacher.

From a professional standpoint, I see two main advantages to becoming a Master. First, networking. A lot of the big names in flight training world are Master CFIs. For a person who is really serious about making a good living as a full time instructor, nothing but good can come from associating with other CFIs who are writing books, giving seminars, owning flight schools, etc. Rich Stowell is considered an authority in the aerobatics world, Max Trescott is an expert with glass panel training, Greg Koontz runs his own flight school, Arlynn McMahon writes books and magazine articles, etc...these are all Master Instructors.

Second, when it comes to marketing yourself to prospective clients, you lend credibility to yourself by being able to say you're a Master Instructor. It doesn't matter if the person you're talking to has any clue what that means. They'll take you more seriously. I'm lucky enough to be able to say I'm one of only three Masters in the entire state of Nebraska. If I mention that to a prospective customer, it instantly elevates me to some degree over everybody else. Simply put, it's good marketing.

Makes a lot of sense! Thank you for your perspective!
In fact, most of the people you mention I already have in my portfolio of contacts and resources, they are great representatives of our profession.
Being part of the FAAST team may help with all this, but generally you can not be better or worse than the people you surround yourself with. This holds true in any profession - high level sales people never complain much about how they are just a notch above McDonalds either.

Being at the beginning of this "Career" I am working on my network and exposure everyday - just like you, simply without the title. I can see where the hidden value is with earning the MCFI or Gold Seal CFI and just like aiming for the Gold Wings with FAAST - I will probably aim at this thing too. I see it as an opportunity to challenge myself - however NAFI has send some really weird signals during the last few months. I know the good parts about it, otherwise I would not consider joining this group. Having a Gold Seal FAI Instructor in the family doesn't help with not taking this profession serious.

It's just really confusing to see NAFI struggle so deeply on a grass roots level, one would think a group of individuals should be capable of behaving like adults? What is your return on investment from the marketing side of things. First, do people select you (targeted) for being a Master CFI? How has NAFI helped you in marketing yourself?
 
It's just really confusing to see NAFI struggle so deeply on a grass roots level, one would think a group of individuals should be capable of behaving like adults? What is your return on investment from the marketing side of things. First, do people select you (targeted) for being a Master CFI? How has NAFI helped you in marketing yourself?

As I said, NAFI is pretty pointless in my book. The only reason I joined was because I wanted to become a Master Instructor and it's sort of a package deal with NAFI. NAFI hasn't helped me with anything.

Nobody has come to me for their training specifically because I'm a Master (at least not yet) but I've only had the certification for four months. It has mainly been useful from a credibility sense when a prospective customer asks me why they should choose our school versus the Other Guys. I can rattle off our equipment, maintenance, curriculum, and now, we have hands down the most experienced instructional staff in the area. Mentioning the Master CFI is part of describing our staff qualifications.

As for a return on investment, I'm certain it will pay for itself many times over. It's a total fee of about $200 for the initial accreditation as a Master. If I even pick up one customer because of having the MCFI after my name, that's worth ten times what I paid to get it.
 
Gold Seal, now at least that has some federal backing. . .

Not sure if that was a dig on Master Instructors or not, but just for the record, earning a MCFI automatically renews a CFI ticket and gives the person a Gold Seal.
 
As I said, NAFI is pretty pointless in my book. The only reason I joined was because I wanted to become a Master Instructor and it's sort of a package deal with NAFI. NAFI hasn't helped me with anything.

Nobody has come to me for their training specifically because I'm a Master (at least not yet) but I've only had the certification for four months. It has mainly been useful from a credibility sense when a prospective customer asks me why they should choose our school versus the Other Guys. I can rattle off our equipment, maintenance, curriculum, and now, we have hands down the most experienced instructional staff in the area. Mentioning the Master CFI is part of describing our staff qualifications.

As for a return on investment, I'm certain it will pay for itself many times over. It's a total fee of about $200 for the initial accreditation as a Master. If I even pick up one customer because of having the MCFI after my name, that's worth ten times what I paid to get it.

I see. Thanks.
On the lighter side of things I would recommend only one thing to add to your credibility as CFI and MCFI:

Get the 150 hanging there like a wheelchair in your avatar replaced with a real airplane, like a Cessna 140. As you surely know, it is (and I only say that so you "gain a better understanding" (!)) a taildragger. :D

We are thinking about converting the 414 to conventional gear as well... :rolleyes:
 
I'm glad to see I'm not the only one that finds NAFI to be a waste of time. Master CFI? You're kidding, right? I'll let my students be the judge on that.

Gold Seal, now at least that has some federal backing. . .

Much like an "SIC Type", it's a paperwork rating/thingy. Something else I can do without. I'm pretty sure I had the requirements for a while there, but I never wasted my time with a trip to the FSDO.

I'm more worried about providing the instruction than I am with the recognition.

-mini
 
Much like an "SIC Type", it's a paperwork rating/thingy. Something else I can do without. I'm pretty sure I had the requirements for a while there, but I never wasted my time with a trip to the FSDO.
Or the AGI. People always say about the AGI, "well, it's something else to put on the resume..." As if anyone who'd be reading their aviation resume wouldn't recognize it as a useless resume garnish.
 
Get the 150 hanging there like a wheelchair in your avatar replaced with a real airplane, like a Cessna 140. As you surely know, it is (and I only say that so you "gain a better understanding" (!)) a taildragger. :D

Haha! I'm well aware of the benefits of C-140s ;)

My avatar doesn't come from my love of C-150s (although they're good planes). It's more a personal reminder of the fond memories I have from flying off of a grass strip in that machine all the time a few years ago.

I'll get around to changing it one of these days.
 
Wow I wonder if I've been booted from NAFI or something-haven't gotten any emails since the BS started back in ?November or so. I agree they don't do a ton for CFIs overall-I did get one student who saw me in the database, though. Interestingly- despite a few emails and a call that went to VM they still haven't updated me in the database.
What's this "SAFE" you're referring to jrh-another CFI organization?
 
I'm glad to see I'm not the only one that finds NAFI to be a waste of time. Master CFI? You're kidding, right? I'll let my students be the judge on that.



Much like an "SIC Type", it's a paperwork rating/thingy. Something else I can do without. I'm pretty sure I had the requirements for a while there, but I never wasted my time with a trip to the FSDO.

I'm more worried about providing the instruction than I am with the recognition.

-mini

Which is my ultimate point. . .

NAFI was, and will be a continual money and power grab.
 
I'm a NAFI member. What is this SAFE?

I think being a Master Instructor is great thing for a career CFI.
 
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