NAFI opposed to 1500 hour rule

Re: NAFI apposed to 1500 hour rule

I think we should get rid of minimum time requirements for other things.

Like undergraduate degrees! I mean for 120 credit hours that's like...1920 hours in class!!! ZOMG!!!

DOWN WITH UNIVERSITIES! NOTHING BUT A SCAM! I DIDN'T LEARN A THING SITTING THERE FOR ALL THOSE YEARS! I could have been doing something important, like reading a newspaper in cruise!
 
Re: NAFI apposed to 1500 hour rule

jtrain609 said:
DOWN WITH UNIVERSITIES! NOTHING BUT A SCAM! I DIDN'T LEARN A THING SITTING THERE FOR ALL THOSE YEARS! I could have been doing something important, like reading a newspaper in cruise!
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Why are you quoting jhugz?
 
Re: NAFI apposed to 1500 hour rule

First and foremost...this is my first post on JC and appreciate all the different opinions out there, because it always makes for a good read (even if you agree or disagree with a post). Look forward to contributing my opinion in the future as well as reading others!
How can anybody be for the 1500 hr rule? A 1500 hr pilot in a new (to them) airplane will make the same mistakes as a 250-300 hr pilot in the same new (to them) airplane. You all that are flying the majors now are living proof that the system has worked good of hiring regional pilots with low time! Thank you for your hard work because it wasn't easy I'm sure but you got numerous people from point A to point B not needing 1500 hrs of experience doing it.....why are we pushing towards 1500hrs to do it safe now?
*I will make the assumption of people flying majors didn't start their career in the airlines (via regionals) at 1500 hrs, and of those that did were prior military (I'm sure there are exceptions but going with a majority).
 
Re: NAFI apposed to 1500 hour rule

Cowboyav8tor said:
First and foremost...this is my first post on JC and appreciate all the different opinions out there, because it always makes for a good read (even if you agree or disagree with a post). Look forward to contributing my opinion in the future as well as reading others!
How can anybody be for the 1500 hr rule?
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Folks that know better would be for the 1,500 rule. Folks like myself.

A 1500 hr pilot in a new (to them) airplane will make the same mistakes as a 250-300 hr pilot in the same new (to them) airplane.
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If after 1,200 hours in an airplane you're making THE SAME mistakes then there is a very serious problem going on. New mistakes? I'm all for them. The same mistakes? You need to have your certificates pulled post-haste.

You all that are flying the majors now are living proof that the system has worked good of hiring regional pilots with low time!
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You may want to re think this.

Thank you for your hard work because it wasn't easy I'm sure but you got numerous people from point A to point B not needing 1500 hrs of experience doing it.....why are we pushing towards 1500hrs to do it safe now?
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Actually almost everybody hired at mainline had something like 5,000+ hours when they were hired there, and few were hired at the regionals with the super low numbers we've seen recently.

*I will make the assumption of people flying majors didn't start their career in the airlines (via regionals) at 1500 hrs, and of those that did were prior military (I'm sure there are exceptions but going with a majority).
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Re: NAFI apposed to 1500 hour rule

Experience is important. But I think aptitude and training are more important. The US military seems to lean that way. Moreover, fatigue mitigation and maintaining professionalism are far more important issues than this 1500 rule.
 
Re: NAFI apposed to 1500 hour rule

Trip7 said:
Experience is important. But I think aptitude and training are more important. The US military seems to lean that way. Moreover, fatigue mitigation and maintaining professionalism are far more important issues than this 1500 rule.
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How many times do we need to compare civilian training and selection standards and military training and selection standards.

Because if you can give me a number that'll get people to stop bringing up this horrible, horrible, horrible point then I'll just start making the threads right now.

No joke.

If it takes another 300 threads, then I'm going to sit around the rest of the day and make 300 threads over this issue.

You're comparing apples to Volkswagens.
 
Re: NAFI apposed to 1500 hour rule

ATN_Pilot said:
John, you've really been on a roll. Must be enjoying that holiday break from school. ;)
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Dude I've got NOTHING TO DO. I'm bouncing between this place, and my posts on here aren't exactly academic heavy lifting, and cleaning up our apartment. I'm thinking about becoming an alcoholic for a few weeks at this point.
 
Re: NAFI apposed to 1500 hour rule

Cowboyav8tor said:
A 1500 hr pilot in a new (to them) airplane will make the same mistakes as a 250-300 hr pilot in the same new (to them) airplane.
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No, I don't bellive they would. The pilot with an ATP has mastered the fundamentals whereas the 250 hour Comercial pilot has not.

Once you master the fundamentals of stick and rudder as well as, instrument flying, then a new airplane is just a new set of systems to learn. There are several RJ captians here who can tell you of the many 250 hour FOs they flew with who had not mastered the basic skills to fly a Cessna much less a jet.
 
Re: NAFI apposed to 1500 hour rule

jtrain609 said:
How many times do we need to compare civilian training and selection standards and military training and selection standards.
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Exactly, the airlines need to up their selection standards. Aptitude testing would be a great start. I believe pilot aptitude/ability, lack of professionalism, and fatigue have been much more a factor in the last few regional crashes then experience.
 
Re: NAFI apposed to 1500 hour rule

jtrain609 said:
Folks that know better would be for the 1,500 rule. Folks like myself.
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and folks like me. Regionals were hiring pilots with experience similar to mine a few years ago. I can tell you, I do not belong in an airline cockpit. 2,000 hours from now, maybe. The 250 hour FO is a pretty recent thing in the US. In the past, flight engineer was how one started out.

Anyway, 1500 hours is a good idea.
 
Re: NAFI apposed to 1500 hour rule

Cowboyav8tor said:
How can anybody be for the 1500 hr rule?
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Very easily--by having more than 1500 hours and being able to know the difference in ability and experience between that and a wet commercial.

A 1500 hr pilot in a new (to them) airplane will make the same mistakes as a 250-300 hr pilot in the same new (to them) airplane.
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Not really.

You all that are flying the majors now are living proof that the system has worked good of hiring regional pilots with low time! Thank you for your hard work because it wasn't easy I'm sure but you got numerous people from point A to point B not needing 1500 hrs of experience doing it.....why are we pushing towards 1500hrs to do it safe now?
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Do what now? I'd guess that the *vast* majority of major airline pilots had waaaaay more than 1500hrs when they got their first airline job (discounting military).
 
Re: NAFI apposed to 1500 hour rule

Understood...that a 1500 hr pilot hopefully will not make the same mistakes a 250-300 hr pilot will....but there is NO guarantee!

<O:p</O:pGuess I need to clarify a previous statement.... I am only speaking of regional FO's not captains and realize that major line captains/FO normally have a lot more flight hours than 1500 hrs. But, my point is if we have been hiring previous FO's at 250-300 hrs why does that need to change to 1500 hrs? Why a 1250 hr difference? How does that ensure a safe flight?
 
Re: NAFI apposed to 1500 hour rule

Cowboyav8tor said:
Understood...that a 1500 hr pilot hopefully will not make the same mistakes a 250-300 hr pilot will....but there is NO guarantee!

<o>:p</o>:pGuess I need to clarify a previous statement.... I am only speaking of regional FO's not captains and realize that major line captains/FO normally have a lot more flight hours than 1500 hrs. But, my point is if we have been hiring previous FO's at 250-300 hrs why does that need to change to 1500 hrs? Why a 1250 hr difference? How does that ensure a safe flight?
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Because we managed to crash a bunch of airplanes, that's why.
 
Re: NAFI apposed to 1500 hour rule

Is there anyone on this board with more than 1500 hours who thinks that hours are "irrelevant"? Bueller?
 
Re: NAFI apposed to 1500 hour rule

Boris Badenov said:
Is there anyone on this board with more than 1500 hours who thinks that hours are "irrelevant"? Bueller?
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That's because all the kids with 200 hours saw 5 of their flight instructors get hired onto regional airlines with 600 hours and are now saying ZOMG HOW WILL I EVER GET A JOB FLYING JETZZZ!!!!!!!!!!!!

My primary flight instructor? She had 8,000 hours.

Of dual given.

She was a master CFI.

And she didn't need to drink Riddlethirst.
 
Re: NAFI apposed to 1500 hour rule

jtrain609 said:
That's because all the kids with 200 hours saw 5 of their flight instructors get hired onto regional airlines with 600 hours and are now saying ZOMG HOW WILL I EVER GET A JOB FLYING JETZZZ!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Absolutely. When I started flying, ATP mins were the lowest any regional would go, and I fully expected to be instructing or at another flying job well past that.

The folks that started flying in the period of sub-1000hr hiring don't know anything else, so I don't blame them for thinking that ATP minimum requirements are too high...but they need to listen to people that have a little more experience than they do.
 
Re: NAFI apposed to 1500 hour rule

zmiller4 said:
Absolutely. When I started flying, ATP mins were the lowest any regional would go, and I fully expected to be instructing or at another flying job well past that.

The folks that started flying in the period of sub-1000hr hiring don't know anything else, so I don't blame them for thinking that ATP minimum requirements are too high...but they need to listen to people that have a little more experience than they do.
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exactly... hiring below 1500tt is a recent anomaly and historically you needed more to be hired and there is a big difference between the competence level of a 500hr vs 1500hr pilot.
 
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