NAFI opposed to 1500 hour rule

Re: NAFI apposed to 1500 hour rule

I really don't know. Before I ever got into flying (and on these forums), I would have thought that regional pilots had a TON more than 250-500 hours. 1500 isn't ridiculous, it just sounds like a lot (especially to someone like me).
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Do they set any other requirements aside from the 1500TT? (like actual, dual given, etc.)
 
Re: NAFI apposed to 1500 hour rule

skydog2 said:
Instead of requiring 1500 hours and an ATP to fly as a co-pilot, think about what requiring 1500 hours for the Flight Instructor certificate would do for both the industry and profession.
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Now that's an idea to get behind! It takes primary school teachers 4 years to get certified but a pilot can be qualified to teach in less than a year? Wonder if NAFI would oppose this?
 
Re: NAFI apposed to 1500 hour rule

""NAFI urges the Senate to reconsider this well intentioned but misguided law that we strongly believe will, in the long run, do little to improve air carrier safety and may well negatively adversely affect general aviation safety.""

Is a negative adverse the same as a positive?:confused: And what the hell are they talking about? I think it would actually be good for GA as pilots would need to spend MORE time in the trenches. 5000 ATP's is the same beat up 172 time on tach as 15000 500hr pilots. This is an as nebulous and unsupported claim as any they are opposed to.

 ""This proposal does not address quality of experience; instead it addresses only a quantity of experience that is not necessarily directly applicable to the type of flight operations that the pilots will encounter in Part 121 Air Carrier operations."" Well NAFI..sounds like this is your area. What say you?
 
Re: NAFI apposed to 1500 hour rule

jknight8907 said:
I just don't see it being any different than it is now. Those like us who care about being skilled, competent pilots will still be skilled & competent. Those going with the flow doing the bare minimum will still be just that, only with a few more hours.
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If you had 300 hours and every single regional was hiring, offering signing bonuses, and all your buddies were jumping on board with the same hours... how many people would say "No, I'm going to build up my experience to 1000~1500 hours before I apply."

This part of the bill would take care of that problem. Notice that I said this part... Along with the 1500TT you are also going to have better training, more stringent screening, and less demanding work/rest rules.
 
Re: NAFI apposed to 1500 hour rule

I noticed pilots that have lots of flight instructor time have better decision making skills. As far as flying skills, I had some pretty good instrument students could could fly the needles better then me with only 50 TT.

X Country time as PIC or Instructor is where the valuable time is.

I like the Idea of requiring 1500 hours for a CFI certificate AND 121/135 pilot. Wont that fix all the problems? :) (now that I got over 1500 hours)
 
Re: NAFI apposed to 1500 hour rule

subpilot said:
If you had 300 hours and every single regional was hiring, offering signing bonuses, and all your buddies were jumping on board with the same hours... how many people would say "No, I'm going to build up my experience to 1000~1500 hours before I apply."
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I did.

Rudabega said:
You don't need to be in a shiny jet to learn about weather. I have flown the country several times in 172's and 182's. First I read some books on what to expect for weather patterns down at the library (ghost town.) This is part of getting to those 1500 hours. Any flight instructor is going to have these opportunities arise.

Do you think that if you taught 1500 hours just in the Bay area you wouldn't learn anything? A good pilot looks for information everywhere and betters himself with it.
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Actually I would argue that shiny jet won't teach you nearly as much in winds gusting to 35 as landing a 150 in the same conditions would. Jets allow you to go over and around lots of conditions you'd be forced to fly through in a piston.
 
Re: NAFI apposed to 1500 hour rule

subpilot said:
If you had 300 hours and every single regional was hiring, offering signing bonuses, and all your buddies were jumping on board with the same hours... how many people would say "No, I'm going to build up my experience to 1000~1500 hours before I apply."

This part of the bill would take care of that problem. Notice that I said this part... Along with the 1500TT you are also going to have better training, more stringent screening, and less demanding work/rest rules.
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Okay, I'll agree with you on that one.
 
Re: NAFI apposed to 1500 hour rule

Hi Guys,

Allow me to be the tool of the crowd and say "Consider the source".

If you were representing flight instructors, what would you want?

1) More or fewer "zero to hero" schools for your members to teach at

2) More or less "encouragement" for students to do "zero to hero" (IE get your ticket and fly and fly an RJ RIGHT NOW!).

3) More or fewer CFIs logging their time and moving on before 1,500 hours instead of waiting another year or two to make 1,500. Here's a hint on this one: The sooner a CFI moves on, the less the competition for the rest.

If you answered more than 2 "mores", then you win a prize.

Like Joe Piece said in Casino. "It's always the dollars. Always the f'in dollars". Remember this, and you will go far.

Richman
 
Re: NAFI apposed to 1500 hour rule

skydog2 said:
Instead of requiring 1500 hours and an ATP to fly as a co-pilot, think about what requiring 1500 hours for the Flight Instructor certificate would do for both the industry and profession.
Click to expand...

I think we would run out of flight instructors!
 
Re: NAFI apposed to 1500 hour rule

wheelsup said:
There was a guy at my school who used to log the Baron charter flights even though he wasn't even in the charter department.
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Funny story.

When I left my IT professional job to do my flight training I got into a discussion with a coworker about pilots and how pilots log hours. He asked me about what system of checks and balances there were to ensure that pilots weren't flying 1 hour and logging 2. "Nothing really, it's kind of like the honor system. Don't log what you didn't fly."

He laughed, saying now he could go buy a logbook and fill it up with flight time and skip spending money on flight training.

"How hard could it be to fly a jet? I've flown Flight Sim lots of times"

:cool:
 
Re: NAFI apposed to 1500 hour rule

Well ATP was a requirement to be a 121 captain, but now it looks like it will be a requirement to be an FO; so what is the new requirement to be a captain?

Should there be a new certificate? A new hour requirement?

Is it reasonable to think, 'if it takes 1500 hours to be an FO, it probably takes more experience to be captain'?
 
Re: NAFI apposed to 1500 hour rule

skydog2 said:
Instead of requiring 1500 hours and an ATP to fly as a co-pilot, think about what requiring 1500 hours for the Flight Instructor certificate would do for both the industry and profession.
Click to expand...

SIUav8er said:
I think we would run out of flight instructors!
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...and flight instructor quality and pay would increase. Gotta love supply and demand; when instructors are a dime a dozen, that's about what you can expect to be paid per flight hour. Most folks are terrified when I fill them in on aviation's dirty little secret...that in general, the industry's least experienced pilots are the instructors.
 
Re: NAFI apposed to 1500 hour rule

Inverted said:
No freaking way. You think bumbling around for 1500 hours in a small plane in one area of the country I'd going to prepare you for flying a much larger aircraft long distances?!

...if I had 600 hours and had 200 hours flying charter over multiple states I would be much better prepared.

Regardless of hours there needs to be better training. Total time doesn't mean a damn thing.
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You're missing the point. 1500 hrs in the pattern prepares you no more than the 50 hr CRJ course is going to prepare you. The whole point is that people need get out and fly those "other" flying jobs to get to the 1500 limit. There are a lot of jobs out there, don't be so narrow minded to think that it means instructing. Instructing is NOT the only way to get TT.

Total time is a reasonable baseline. Total time means that you have spent a MINIMUM of time experiencing flight activities. Lack of total time means you can read a book and BUY a training event.

What makes people think that if 1500 hrs in the pattern doesn't mean anything, 500 + a "sim course" isn't any better?

If pilots would put as much time into building experience as they do complaining and trying to circumvent the rules, we wouldn't have this problem.

AirmetTango said:
...on aviation's dirty little secret...that in general, the industry's least experienced pilots are the instructors.
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That's not the dirty little secret. The dirty little secret is that people that barely qualify as instructors are flying their airliners. And that they readily do it for < $20K.
 
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