My experience at DCA for those looking to attend
- Thread starter gtrmantb
- Start date
Z28_Pilot
New Member
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Taking nothing away from you, but in all fairness, in three years a guy can go from zero time to a regional in a small part 61 flight school, too. I've seen it happen.
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I don't have an argument for that point because you're right. I have seen that first hand .....I was just submitting my experience for the board.
Taking nothing away from you, but in all fairness, in three years a guy can go from zero time to a regional in a small part 61 flight school, too. I've seen it happen.
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I don't have an argument for that point because you're right. I have seen that first hand .....I was just submitting my experience for the board.
FO_SHIZZLE
Well-Known Member
Pretty sure the remainder goes back to Key or whoever gave the loan.
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Pretty sure the remainder goes back to Key or whoever gave the loan.
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May have changed now, but when the guys that left out of my class moved to another school, they were able to transfer the money. Of course DCA did everything they could to make that difficult, but it was doable. And for the record, of the 17 that started in 'orientation' with me, all 17 evenually left. 9 within 2 months....the rest slowly but surely after that.
But that was 2 years ago so check with the lending agency.
Good luck
Pretty sure the remainder goes back to Key or whoever gave the loan.
[/ QUOTE ]
May have changed now, but when the guys that left out of my class moved to another school, they were able to transfer the money. Of course DCA did everything they could to make that difficult, but it was doable. And for the record, of the 17 that started in 'orientation' with me, all 17 evenually left. 9 within 2 months....the rest slowly but surely after that.
But that was 2 years ago so check with the lending agency.
Good luck
FO_SHIZZLE
Well-Known Member
Yeah think you might be right, you probably can transfer it to another approved school, just can't pocket it and do with it whatever.
ananoman
New Member
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DCA has a good structure in place but there organizing of task need to be better...they are not affording students the latitude to finish the work-..I found that learning the material wasn't difficult it was the rediculous amount of time they afforded you(and i mean ridiculous).
[/ QUOTE ] I am curious how they structure things. If they say that it will take you 10 weeks (or whatever) to get your private, do they somehow hold you back and keep you from finishing? Or is it just how the ground schools are spaced out, so that you might get done, but have to sit around for a few weeks and wait for the next ground school before you can start the next step?
DCA has a good structure in place but there organizing of task need to be better...they are not affording students the latitude to finish the work-..I found that learning the material wasn't difficult it was the rediculous amount of time they afforded you(and i mean ridiculous).
[/ QUOTE ] I am curious how they structure things. If they say that it will take you 10 weeks (or whatever) to get your private, do they somehow hold you back and keep you from finishing? Or is it just how the ground schools are spaced out, so that you might get done, but have to sit around for a few weeks and wait for the next ground school before you can start the next step?
No they do not hold you back, but many lessons have so much to do on them you have to incomplete because you don't have enough time to finish. Also their "estimated" cost are based on you getting the hang of everything the first time you do it. For instance, in private you are required by the FAA to perform a diversion. This involves a great deal of multi-tasking. You must fly the plane, holding altitude and heading, determine the airport you are going to, look up the information about the airport in the AF/D, calculate the distance, time, fuel required,and ETA to that airport. For someone who has never done it this is a daunting task. DCA only allows 2 lessons where you practice a diversion before you must demonstrate it on a stage check. I found the curriculum for instrument even worse, where several tasks that you must perform are done in the plane for the first time on the group leader flight (pre-stage).
ananoman
New Member
You will find a lot of that at any 141 school. In order to get the ratings in the minimum hours, you have to have a good instructor and be somewhat of a 'natural'.
I would often complete lessons with out actually doing everything that was listed, because it was impossible. You can usually still find the time to make things work out by focusing on a few task on every lesson and having the student practice the maneuvers multiple times, instead of having them do an unreasonable amount of maneuvers once in a half assed fashion so you can cram it all in. For new instructors, it takes some time to figure this out. You also risk being called on the carpet for 'completing' a lesson without actually covering every task. I always told my students what I was doing and would also tell them that if the lesson was supposed to be 1.2 hrs and we needed to take 1.5 to get the lesson done, I would do it. In the end it is better (and cheaper) to spend an extra .3 to get something down than have to unsat the entire flight.
I do know several instructors who had retarded students who would watch their hours like a hawk and would bitch and say that the last lesson was .1 over, so the next lesson would have to be completed .1 under what was called for. It probably cost them more in the end.
For instrument work, there is no reason to have to actually introduce a task in the airplane without doing it in the Frasca first (or even better on Microsoft Flight Sim). Since DCA has these, they should be using them. It is much cheaper to learn in the FTD than in the airplane. There were some lessons in the FSI syllabus in the beginning of the instrument syllabus that introduced task in the airplane first and I simply did the lessons out of order, so it was always learned in the Frasca first. I would also not let my students go to the Frasca until they could intercept and track on the HSI, OBS, and RMI on Microsoft. It did not have to be perfect, but it was a waste of money to put them in the Frasca if they did not really know what they were doing.
For your diversion example, they should have briefed you ahead of time and had you do one on the ground, while not flying the airplane. Then after the first diversion if it was a problem, they should have had you do multiple 'practice' diversions again, while on the ground. They could also help you prior to the checkride, as once you know what flight plan you have to prepare, you can usually make an educated guess where you will be diverted to. The checkpilot usually only has you do the first few checkpoints, then gives you the diversion, which is usually not that far away. Sometimes this helps the student think ahead.
This can be one of the more difficult maneuvers for the private checkride, but can be much simpler than many make it. If you think about it, most class D airspace rings are about 8 miles across (A class C ring is even better). You can use this as a scale to estimate your distance to a diversion. You can use the rings around VORs to estimate a heading. Most trainers go about 2 miles per minute and eat about 10 gallons per hour. You can do the math in your head and come suprisingly close to the answer people struggle to get using their plotter and E6B while trying to fly the plane at the same time. I would also argue that you should not be trying to read the AFD while flying. There is no reason for it, and it is much safer to be looking outside. But, I also feel the same way about those VFR flight plan forms. I would rather have my students looking outside than trying to fill in little squares every time they pass checkpoints that are 10 miles apart. You should know about how long it should take you to get to key check points before you takeoff, and should keep track of your progress, but it is often taken to an illogical extreme.
I would often complete lessons with out actually doing everything that was listed, because it was impossible. You can usually still find the time to make things work out by focusing on a few task on every lesson and having the student practice the maneuvers multiple times, instead of having them do an unreasonable amount of maneuvers once in a half assed fashion so you can cram it all in. For new instructors, it takes some time to figure this out. You also risk being called on the carpet for 'completing' a lesson without actually covering every task. I always told my students what I was doing and would also tell them that if the lesson was supposed to be 1.2 hrs and we needed to take 1.5 to get the lesson done, I would do it. In the end it is better (and cheaper) to spend an extra .3 to get something down than have to unsat the entire flight.
I do know several instructors who had retarded students who would watch their hours like a hawk and would bitch and say that the last lesson was .1 over, so the next lesson would have to be completed .1 under what was called for. It probably cost them more in the end.
For instrument work, there is no reason to have to actually introduce a task in the airplane without doing it in the Frasca first (or even better on Microsoft Flight Sim). Since DCA has these, they should be using them. It is much cheaper to learn in the FTD than in the airplane. There were some lessons in the FSI syllabus in the beginning of the instrument syllabus that introduced task in the airplane first and I simply did the lessons out of order, so it was always learned in the Frasca first. I would also not let my students go to the Frasca until they could intercept and track on the HSI, OBS, and RMI on Microsoft. It did not have to be perfect, but it was a waste of money to put them in the Frasca if they did not really know what they were doing.
For your diversion example, they should have briefed you ahead of time and had you do one on the ground, while not flying the airplane. Then after the first diversion if it was a problem, they should have had you do multiple 'practice' diversions again, while on the ground. They could also help you prior to the checkride, as once you know what flight plan you have to prepare, you can usually make an educated guess where you will be diverted to. The checkpilot usually only has you do the first few checkpoints, then gives you the diversion, which is usually not that far away. Sometimes this helps the student think ahead.
This can be one of the more difficult maneuvers for the private checkride, but can be much simpler than many make it. If you think about it, most class D airspace rings are about 8 miles across (A class C ring is even better). You can use this as a scale to estimate your distance to a diversion. You can use the rings around VORs to estimate a heading. Most trainers go about 2 miles per minute and eat about 10 gallons per hour. You can do the math in your head and come suprisingly close to the answer people struggle to get using their plotter and E6B while trying to fly the plane at the same time. I would also argue that you should not be trying to read the AFD while flying. There is no reason for it, and it is much safer to be looking outside. But, I also feel the same way about those VFR flight plan forms. I would rather have my students looking outside than trying to fill in little squares every time they pass checkpoints that are 10 miles apart. You should know about how long it should take you to get to key check points before you takeoff, and should keep track of your progress, but it is often taken to an illogical extreme.
Wannabe2
New Member
[ QUOTE ]
For instrument work, there is no reason to have to actually introduce a task in the airplane without doing it in the Frasca first (or even better on Microsoft Flight Sim). Since DCA has these, they should be using them.
[/ QUOTE ]
just to be clear, these tasks ARE introduced in the sim, what he was saying is that the first time they were done in the aircraft was on a flight with a group leader (as opposed to his primary instructor), me actually in this case. these group leader flights are being changed around a bit, so I am not even sure if that particular flight is a leader flight, but the theory behind them was to put a student with a more experienced instructor/another set of eyes before they go up for stage.
Another thing I noticed is that everyone mentions this "estimate" of costs they are quoted when they come here. It is not an estimate, it is a MINIMUM, and as far as I know is always quoted as such. Everyone hears what they want to hear however....
For instrument work, there is no reason to have to actually introduce a task in the airplane without doing it in the Frasca first (or even better on Microsoft Flight Sim). Since DCA has these, they should be using them.
[/ QUOTE ]
just to be clear, these tasks ARE introduced in the sim, what he was saying is that the first time they were done in the aircraft was on a flight with a group leader (as opposed to his primary instructor), me actually in this case. these group leader flights are being changed around a bit, so I am not even sure if that particular flight is a leader flight, but the theory behind them was to put a student with a more experienced instructor/another set of eyes before they go up for stage.
Another thing I noticed is that everyone mentions this "estimate" of costs they are quoted when they come here. It is not an estimate, it is a MINIMUM, and as far as I know is always quoted as such. Everyone hears what they want to hear however....
You need to talk to the DCA recruiters if you think they are quoting these prices as minimums. Once you're enrolled everyone starts telling you these are the "minimums", but while they're recruiting they speak of this number as "average" or use the phrase "about this much". And as far as all that sim time in instrument in place of actual airplane time, I didn't find out about that until I was in the instrument group and read the course outline. Which brings me back to my point, why does a company who claims to be so "customer oriented" spend so much time defending itself from its customers? I think if DCA were a little more honest and a little less greedy, they wouldn't have near the problems they're having right now. I just want people to know what I experienced as a student, before falling into a situation they might not be prepared for.
dpewing
New Member
When I took the tour, I attempted to get a syllabus and they said that it was against their policy to give that information out until after you're enrolled. Now I see why. All I got was a quote for the amount the training would cost, and they said that most people do spend "a little" more... I've abandoned the thought of going to DCA, and I'm getting my ratings at a very good part 141 school.
dpewing
New Member
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What school?
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Jetstream Aviation
http://www.jetstreamaviation.com
They can't guarantee me an interview, but the training is great, and I'm always treated like a customer.
If you live anywhere close to Boise, Idaho, check out Jetstream Aviation. The cost of living is pretty low, so it would even be worth the effort of moving to Boise and finish your training here.
What school?
[/ QUOTE ]
Jetstream Aviation
http://www.jetstreamaviation.com
They can't guarantee me an interview, but the training is great, and I'm always treated like a customer.
If you live anywhere close to Boise, Idaho, check out Jetstream Aviation. The cost of living is pretty low, so it would even be worth the effort of moving to Boise and finish your training here.
Sorry I havent been around... Been looking at other schools for all those intrested... Approved 141 Schools that can get loans through the loan people you have loans with can transfer your loans. Just alittle FYI I found out and I was told this by all 3 of the 141 schools I checked out and one 61 operation that said they could do it. Just little FYI
Wannabe2
New Member
Wow, i have never heard anyone here tell me to not talk about the courses or syllabus or anything. That is pretty public info I fugure since every student here goes through the courses. If someone has questions about it let me know. I am not going to go into gory details or send out copies without checking with the bosses, but if someone has general quesitons let me know....
mnixon
Well-Known Member
My .02 cents would be that the academy is what you make of it. Gtman, I have a good idea of who you are and if you need help ever come see me buddy. This goes for everyone, if you need help with something, ASK! I can not tell you how many people work at that place strictly for your purpose. My main job as a leader is to take care of students. If I am not doing that let me know. I monitior every single students progress every day. If your not happy come talk to me. If you unsat or incomplete a lesson, come talk to me about it. That is the biggest thing I see, students letting problems get to the point where it is already past the point of prevention. Use the people that are there for you.
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