My Controls?

RiddlePilot

New Member
Alright, I have a question for you active CFIs. I'm a commercial multiengine student at the moment, and my IP has the tendency to do something that bothers the living hell out of me.

The scenario is this: Yesterday after coming back from the practice area, I had turned final on-speed and the approach was looking fine. Coming over the threshold, I reduced power as normal and started to transition to the flare at the appropriate time. Right at this point, my instructor puts his thumb against his yoke. He wasn't pushing or pulling, yet, he was restricting my movement rearward. I made a normal landing, and when I asked about this (rather peeved), he mentioned that it was his practice to always do this with new commercial students (I've just started back in the multi).

Now, I have 60 hours in type, and he knows this. He also had no reason to believe that I was going to slam the aircraft into the ground on this landing. My question is this: Is this sort of thing common practice for IPs? As I mentioned, I was quite peeved that he would do such a thing when everything was under control and stable, yet, I don't want to blow this out of proportion if instructors do indeed use this technique, even with commercial students.

Thanks for the insight, guys.
 

flyguy

Well-Known Member
I'm just a pre-private student so I can't testify too much, but my instructor sits with his hands in his lap unless his life starts flashing before his eyes.
 

Mr_Creepy

Well-Known Member
Can you pick another IP? If so, do it. You pay to fly the plane, not to watch someone else do it.
 

Alchemy

Well-Known Member
Is this the first time this instructor had flown with you in this airplane? If so, cut the guy a little slack. Might've just been his nerves. If he'd flown with you before in this airplane and you landed fine before, it's definitely a strange thing for him to do.
 

cime_sp

Well-Known Member
I agree with alchemy. I'm sure you're a good pilot, but if I was your new CFI and had never flown with you....and we're also in a plane you have not flown in a while I would definately be on alert. I try to keep my hands near the controls though and not touch them, but close enough to do so quickly if I have to.

I can almost guarantee you on your next flight he will be a lot more comfortable with your skills and I doubt this will be a problem.

Let us know how it turns out
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
[ QUOTE ]
Can you pick another IP? If so, do it. You pay to fly the plane, not to watch someone else do it.

[/ QUOTE ]

JT, he's not watching someone else fly the plane. I don't think the IP was flying the plane, just guarding the controls a bit against a possible over-flare with a stud he may not be familiar with, and who might not be current and with a mere 60 hours to speak of in same. Remember Riddleman, the IP has the responsibility for the overall safety. How he exercises the responsibility is pure technique.

Agree with the last two....the IP simply had to see if you'd be a candyass or unsafe. Now that he's satisfied, things should go fine.
 

bluelake

Well-Known Member
I am always a bit on edge when flying with someone new.. and I can say just as many 1000 hour pilots have given me reason as new students. Once I think they are ok, then I am ok as well.

Is your CFI a new CFI?? A year into this job, I have learned how to maintain a level of alertness with out "showing it" with body language. In all honesty, I think I appear more relaxed now than i did last february..
 

Mr_Creepy

Well-Known Member
I thought you said he did it every flight. My bad. Yeah on the first flight a CFI will be a little more skeptical, or at least if he wants to live a while!

If he keeps doing it though, ask him WHY.
 

MidlifeFlyer

Well-Known Member
I just think you were entitled to more of an explanation that "I always do this". The reasons given by others are certainly valid, but since we're not mind readers, we don't know if it was =his= reason.
 

PilotGuy37

New Member
Funny you should bring this up, I thought it was something "special". A few weeks ago, while I was just starting my flare, I felt a little "drag" on the control as a pulled back. I did a quick glance over and my CFI was doing the exact same thing. He just had his hands on his lap, no feet on the rudders, and even seemed to be checking the cows in the field beside the runway. He just had his right thumb up to seem to keep me from flaring to much. Well, I brought her down with the little "chirp, chirp", smooth as glass and, while on the back taxi, asked him why he did that. He said that while I was getting ready to level out he glanced over at the windsock and noticed that it took an abrupt stance straight out, with a lot more head wind then we were advised just a min before. He didn't want to say anything to me, just wanted to make sure that during my flare the wind didn't get me and cause me to balloon. He said If I wouldn't have said anything, he wouldn't have either. A "confidence" thing I suppose.
Anyway's, maybe there could have been something that he seen that you didn't, due to concentrating on the numbers.
Just a thought.
Take care.
 

bluelake

Well-Known Member
PilotGuy,

Kudos that the CFI was lookin out for you. I would rather have the balloon occur and see from my student how he/she deals with it. I see enough normal landings, I look forward to those windsock anomolies, cuz someday I aint gonna be in that right seat for my student.
 

JAM

New Member
I'd like to make a humble suggestion to all the new CFI's out there:

If you are concerned about your students over-flaring or botching a landing, this should be discussed before the flight, along with a review of decision-making and the go-around procedure. I would much prefer to see a pilot make a mistake in the approach/landing phase and make a good decision to go-around and try again, then for me to prevent the mistake and deprive him/her of that decision-making opportunity.

My 2 cents.
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
Very good suggestion. I figure the only caveat to that would be balancing which phase (training-phase) the student was in relation to his experience level, and figuring that into the amount of direct/indirect intervention in the cockpit
 

JJOB757

New Member
Hey all, just like to toss an opinion around myself. The first time flying with someone is always the most interesting. It seems like the higher time less proficient pilots are more of a concern than the new ones. There is a fine line between a horrible landing and one which will cause damage to you, your student, and or the airplane. As long as you can recognize this fine line as it is happening, let the students make their mistakes, this is the only way they will truly learn from them. It took me a while to get comfortable with this but it seems to be working pretty well. Fly Safe.
 

pscraig

Well-Known Member
Many of my ATP students that come from a military transport background tend to over-rotate and nearly cause a stall. This is after discussing it a few minutes earlier, but old habits die hard. My hands are close enough to the controls to grab them rapidly, and since I am learning what to expect it's not so dramatic.
 

Raskal

New Member
Typically low time cfi's are on the controls. It's pretty rare to see this kind of behavior in anyone with more than 500 dual given. By the time I had that I was pretty relaxed during landing, now I have around 1200 given and I'm damn near in a coma. Students learn so much more from making the mistakes during landing than from corrections. The aircraft can handle it just fine, within reason. Not to mention the hard feelings/confidence issues that result.

I find it interesting he was restricting your flare. I'm much more concerned with no flare than too much, especially considering that most multi students land twins like a pancake.

I would really consider getting a different IP. One with more time or a better handle on things could teach you more, faster.
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
[ QUOTE ]
I would really consider getting a different IP. One with more time or a better handle on things could teach you more, faster.

[/ QUOTE ]

Keep in mind none of us was in the cockpit to actually see what happened and to what degree. Kind of a harsh judgement to make based on one post of the event, maybe?
 

Raskal

New Member
[quote
Keep in mind none of us was in the cockpit to actually see what happened and to what degree. Kind of a harsh judgement to make based on one post of the event, maybe?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I guess I did come across a harsh. I didn't mean to. I was speaking from personal experience rather than the specific incident.
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
[ QUOTE ]
[quote
Keep in mind none of us was in the cockpit to actually see what happened and to what degree. Kind of a harsh judgement to make based on one post of the event, maybe?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I guess I did come across a harsh. I didn't mean to. I was speaking from personal experience rather than the specific incident.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wasn't accusing you of anything direct, just trying to give a little perspective. I fully understand that personal experience part. Who knows, you could very well be right.
 
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