my app got accepted

Thanks for all the info guys. I am going to talk to Skywalk flight school in sacramento tomorrow. I have heard good things about that flight school. Anyone have any comments about them?
 
Having experienced both sides of this, ATP does a good job with the crew experience and their add-on stuff for the higher up ratings (ATP, MEI- Comm. Multi) is actually not too bad if you need to knock out a rating in a weekend/week. Past that, I cant really recommend it for learning the basics of aviation-there's just too much stuff to need to rush through. Many there will tell you that you're "learning for the airlines" which frankly is short-sighted. Yes, 121 training is fast-paced but when you have 1000+ hours and you understand the basics of aviation already, its not as big of a jump as you're learning the complexities of a specific airframe vs. aviation as a whole. The big thing is the instructors-lots of good ones in there but frankly some are just there to build time and with the industry what it is there are a good amount of those who you can tell just want to jump at the first airline that starts hiring vs. spending time to ensure you're learning.

I would say take your time, get your ratings, get a good instructing job, maybe a good 91/135 job on the side if it happens your way. If you need to slap on an ATP/MEI rating, ATP isnt a bad option because at least by that point you're flying regularly so adding on something isnt as big a step.

A big thing that stuck with me was different examiners commenting positively on the habits of pilots who have flown elsewhere before going to ATP on having solid basic piloting skills and ADM vs. those that have come in with 0 hours. That spoke volumes. One thing I really wonder what their first time pass rate is nationally compared to other flight schools/national average for part 61 programs?
 
Yes, 121 training is fast-paced but when you have 1000+ hours and you understand the basics of aviation already, its not as big of a jump as you're learning the complexities of a specific airframe vs. aviation as a whole.
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Thats completely true. Do the FBO thing, there are plenty of people who go to 121 training and do well and past. I did it. Dollar for dollar you'd be stupid to go pay big bucks for a shot at a low paying FO job when you can do it for less.

I did have sim instructors in groundschool at my airline mention that those that did accelerated programs had less of an understanding of basic airmanship concepts. That is their personal experiences and opinions. So take it with a grain of salt. I think you get good and bad from either experience FBO vs ATP. All your doing is accellerating your way to debt and unemployment right now.

Just because someone sells you the idea that you need to spend big bucks and do their program to make it as an airline pilot is selling snake-oil. Especially in this industry the way it is now. I wouldn't even consider taking a loan for 13%. Can't believe anyone would believe its ok to do that. Then again like others have said, now we know why the economy is the way it is...
 
Test of ATP grad's skills - can he or she shoot an NDB approach on a windy day? I never did any NDB approaches while at ATP, it was one of the things that I did feel like I was short changed. I managed to learn them afterwards, while flight instructing -- but seriously now.
 
Oh, is this a can of worms!

If at all possible go to your local FBO and get your ratings. (Private, Instrument, Single Commercial) and pay as you go.

Have some fun and actually ENJOY flying. Don't try to rush these things. You'll get great training and you'll save a bunch of money because you can keep your present job and you can keep living where you are presently living!

If you can commit to flying 2 days a week then you will fly about 156 hours a year plus the time you can take to rent a plane, split the cost with your friends and actually fly some cross country trips to somewhere nice! (after you get your Private)

This will take you just over 18 months (not much more time than one of the "fast track" flight schools which take 11-14 months under the best of circumstances) to accomplish all of your ratings and you won't go into heavy debt and you will have more fun doing it.

Flying is a fun activity to share with your non-flying friends! If you can spit the cost of renting a 172 among 4 people the cost comes way down and you get to log the time.

Also for your birthday, Christmas, graduation, etc you can ask your friends and relatives to buy you an hour or more of flight time at the FBO.

You're hard to buy presents for anyway so you have just made their job so much easier and they can feel good about giving you something that you really need.

After you have your ratings you can get your multi add on and airline transition course at ATP if you want to go the career route.

Remember ratings are ratings. In the end no one cares if you got them from an FBO, a CFI with a plane or a flight academy. They all mean the same in the end. The pay will be the same no matter where you obtained them.
 
JOEFRIDAY2 said:
After you have your ratings you can get your multi add on and airline transition course at ATP if you want to go the career route.
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FAIL.

All your points were good up until paying for a transition course. Please, don't waste money on those.
 
There is nothing wrong with ATP, operations wise. Instead of flying 90 days out 365 part time at an FBO, ATP just actually does it in 90 days and they provide everything except the food. In fact it's actually better than the FBO because from day one all you are doing is living and breathing aviation. Plus you are not alone, there's others with you in the process. Virtually all of your training is multi and they give you the responsibility of flying x country for 2 to 3 weeks coast to coast. No Fbo is going to allow you to go coast to coast as a wet ppl/inst pilot. You learn a lot and more importantly you gain a lot of confidence. The CFI academy is where most of the people washout and where ATP gets the most flak. That's just a completely different subject, no matter how much you pay they are not going to make a teacher out of you in 14 days, even if you just got done flying for 90 days straight. Anyways, but the actual ppl to comm stage is completely fine. HOWEVER, the only issue with ATP is that you just don't need it right now, nobody is hiring. You could probably save 10K by going to the FBO.
 
My experience has been that most students in an FBO live in a vacuum. They talk with their instructor, but are not exposed to other ideas. And the motivation to get the rating is not as much as the ATP student.

Because of the eat-and-breathe aviation 24/7 at ATP, there is more exposure to different ideas and time to talk about stuff with other students and instructors. Certainly you can get this experience at an FBO, but most students at an FBO check in, preflight the plane, do the flight, postflight with their instructor, and then leave.
 
the xc portion of atp's 90 day program is pretty cool and was in opinion, the best part of the program. you do gain a ton of confidence. i have heard of them doing programs for people now where they come in, do the 302/303 ride and go on a time building spree for however much time they need at some pre-arranged amount. however, you could potentially recreate this experience at an fbo and have more freedom in terms of where you go and general logistics. my fbo in particular will let you go wherever as long as you have an instrument ticket and many fbo's (skymates for one in gky) that have specific time-building programs. in terms of living in a vacuum at an fbo, i'd consider atp one of the biggest vacuums out there as far as aviation goes. things are pretty much taught the same way and most instructors/admins there generally have the same concepts on the industry. not a good or bad thing but just what i experienced. i'd say i've experienced more different ideas and practices at my local fbo than at my time at atp. if you are planning on going into flight training in full force, just spend a little more time at the fbo and you'll catch plenty of ideas-not to mention the occasional blocks of free flight time :-)
 
i love the posts in the ATP section of the forum. non stop flaming of any and all things ATP.

that being said....... train at FBO??? save 20k??? ;)
 
come on over to tallahassee! my part 61 school has no problem with me flying to california and back in one of the schools planes. in fact, they told me that was an awesome idea and to take a ton of pictures.
 
schuh said:
My app got accepted for going to ATP. My parents cosigned for me. What interest rates are you guys getting? I got one at 13.8%. So terrible. Not taking that one. Still waiting on the others.

Also where did you choose to get the loan through??

Thanks any help would be great
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RUN LIKE HELL AWAY FROM ANY FAST-TRACK FLIGHT PROGRAM!!! :guns:
 
Or do it. . .I don't care anymore.

It's your finances and career. If you got 80k in debt just to be an airline pilot, more power to ya.

But don't come crying for help or sympathy after enough of us told you otherwise and tried to save you from falling into a black hole of disaster.
 
they will get you your ratings. there won't be anything special, no quick route to the airlines and the crj course is worthless. There will also be some holes in your training but you can fill these in later (like many of us had to) though that is not a good thing. i have been a product of both FBO's and ATP. You can have holes in your knowledge to from an FBO, I just don't want you to think ATP is some sort of perfect school. I had a good time at ATP though, but just take it for face value: you will get your ratings faster and get a lot of multi-time. That is it. The instructors for the most part will only know what they learned at ATP and nothing else since most (not all) won't have any other flight or life experience. That's where FBO's usually shine, they will have people from all walks of life and all types of aviation backgrounds.

Why did I go to ATP? well, because while i was in the military it took me 2 years to finally get my PPL and I didn't feel like taking 2 years per rating. So when I got out I had some choices: get another career so I can finish my ratings on the side, then change careers again, try to get a loan to finish quickly at an FBO and live off of the loan in a rented place while trying to finish my ratings, or go to ATP where they had that sort program already available (and it was easier to get a loan for at the time) . So I just went in to get my ratings quicker. So do your research, I hope ATP wasn't the first and only place you looked.
 
GlenA said:
Why did I go to ATP? well, because while i was in the military it took me 2 years to finally get my PPL and I didn't feel like taking 2 years per rating. So when I got out I had some choices: get another career so I can finish my ratings on the side, then change careers again, try to get a loan to finish quickly at an FBO and live off of the loan in a rented place while trying to finish my ratings, or go to ATP where they had that sort program already available (and it was easier to get a loan for at the time) . So I just went in to get my ratings quicker. So do your research, I hope ATP wasn't the first and only place you looked.
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You had another option. Utilize your GI Bill.
 
still had to get the loan...again, it was harder to do that outside of an established program. And I would rather save my GI Bill for something like my Masters. Yes, I thought it through.
 
GlenA said:
still had to get the loan...again, it was harder to do that outside of an established program. And I would rather save my GI Bill for something like my Masters. Yes, I thought it through.
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Very well. I still took out a loan, but it was for a far lower number by using my GI Bill. I just didn't attend ATP

Oh, and my GI Bill has paid for my undergrad and will pay for a portion of my graduate work as well.

Anyway - whatever. Good luck.
 
Not going to ATP anymore. My uncle is letting me use his Warrior for training.. If the numbers are right it will be under 20000$ :beer:
 
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