Multi-engine training and time building

if you're a cfi in Minneapolis your best, most affordable option is probably Thunderbird. Cost aside there are not many, if at all, any other options in the area. I would not spend my money there anymore as their customer service has gone down the hopper.

Are you no longer persuing the ATC route?
 
Hello,

I'm a CFI in Minneapolis, MN, and I'm trying to evaluate multi-engine training and time building. I'd appreciate your help on this topic because it seems like there are many options, but not many great options. I'd like to get my MEI in my area if possible.

I've made an online survey trying to pin-point a few key factors, it's 10 questions (no IP tracking).

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=mspmIBpW_2bdYRkXPNg2hWXA_3d_3d

A buddy of mine got his MEI @ Action Multi Ratings in Groton Connecticut.
2008 I got my ME Commercial done there and believe to remember that they do offer time building stuff as well. I don't know how "valuable" any multi time may be right now and except for the initial rating I have not paid a dime for the multi time. If it is for ME instruction they may be able to accomodate your wish in a learning setting, rather than poking holes in the sky as a safety pilot? Good luck!
 
Right now I'm in the same boat, the SE engine time is coming in at a decent rate for it being winter in NE Ohio, but the multi time keeps me up at night. Currently to get my MEI at my school would be around 2500 - 3000 dollars, and I just cant make the equation add up. No one will be hiring for a couple years, so it seems like a decent time to just sit back, enjoy the job that I have, build time, and not worry about it for now.

However I hear that Texas (and the South in general) has cheap twins, and without a doubt I would take a week off of work to drive down there, sleep in the car and get it. I would still have 10 guys in front of me at the flight school before I saw a multi student, and for that reason it doesn't seem to make much good economic sense to get it, I hope that it does at some point in the next year, not holding out too much hope the way the economy is goin.
 
Good luck finding any cheap twins in central texas.. Maybe Houston. But Austin and south are high priced, high check-out time requirement.

I'm in the same boat. Not too worried about multi right now, it's really a cost kinda thing. If there were more multi students then I would consider getting my MEI, but since most around here are private.. Its not worth the time or the money.

Now that I think about it, there is a place in Houston that offers time building at a good price but I can't remember the name.

Good luck! I haven't figured out how I want to build multi time yet
 
Thanks to those of you who're taking my online survey! I have 10 'results' so far and it appears most people already have their ME rating, are paying between $200-250/hr for an airplane, and are looking to build ME time.

I have given up on the ATC route, I never got a callback from the FAA. Also, I figured that I'd rather be the one talking to ATC than ATC guy talking to pilots.

I think discussion about what to do in the 'waiting' time is good for us who need the ME time to be competitive.
 
Thanks to those of you who're taking my online survey! I have 10 'results' so far and it appears most people already have their ME rating, are paying between $200-250/hr for an airplane, and are looking to build ME time.

I have given up on the ATC route, I never got a callback from the FAA. Also, I figured that I'd rather be the one talking to ATC than ATC guy talking to pilots.

I think discussion about what to do in the 'waiting' time is good for us who need the ME time to be competitive.

I didn't complete the survey because it would have no informational character for your situation. My recommendation at this point is to go network and find people interested in having someone along. There are quite a few private airplanes with owners who fly them selfes and are willing to teach you something along the way. Don't buy ME time unless you can buy some 200 or 300 hours, 50 hours of ME time do nothing nowadays. If I got an offer to go build time for $50/hour I would decline. Don't pour money down the drain. The Multi Rating itself is not the issue, I can still get that done for about 2K... In your survey you call the prices of all this "obnouxisly " high. These prices are mainly caused by running and TBO'ing 2 engines, and a lot of money for insurance and maintenance. I fly about 5-10 hours a month in a twin and it makes not the slightest difference in terms of "hireability". Right now, I would not pay a dime for multi time. The good times are over - and the market is crooked enough to just take what comes your way, rather than investing more money into a very uncertain future.
Good luck.
 
I am currently working on my Commercial Multi, but I will be able to build time right after because of networking. I gave someone CFII training for Multi-Time and a high performance endorsement in his aircraft.

Networking can be the best way to get multi-time.
 
I did some volunteer flying for Angel Flight as a means of building ME time. While I had to foot the bill for the whole thing, it was all tax deductible, which made it about 30% cheaper when all was said and done. Several airports around would also give a deep discount on fuel if you were on an AF mission. It was also great to use my skills to give something to those who were less fortunate instead of just boring holes in the sky.
 
I've noticed a lot of companies are not raising their multi mins but are increasing their Actual mins. There are a lot of 135's out there that are hiring with 10 hours multi but you need to be sharp on IFR.
 
Multi Engine Training in Arlington, TX is probably the cheapest place to get your MEI at. Was $1295 for MEI a couple of years ago when I did my multi add-on there, but think it may be $1495 now.
 
I agree with JEP on this one in regards to Thunderbird. May be the best option here in the MSP area. However, I too would not spend my money there.

If you haven't already, you may want to check out Flying Scotchman up in MIC. Buddy of mine got both his CMEL and MEI up there in their Duchess. He said it was fine. I thought of going there, then decided on elsewhere. May be a bit cheaper than Thunderbird, depending on how much you fly with the one time fee and monthly dues.
 
I'm actually an instructor up at Thunderbird Crystal if you want any info you can PM me. If your looking for cost, Flying Scotchman is probably your best bet. I don't think Twin Cities Aviation or Wings have a multi-engine program.
 
Survey says...

So far, 19 people have taken the survey. I'll list the majority results below.

Q1: 62% interested in building ME time
Q2: 68% looking to build ME time
Q3: 61% would use a flight school for the airplane
Q4: 94% said price really matters, 74% say airplane complexity does not matter, 62% say instruction really matters, 47% say scheduling really matters
Q5: Time is the biggest constraint to building ME time
Q6: Most people pay between $201-$250/hr
Q7: Most people pay between $30-$40 for instruction
Q8: 63% say they would travel out of state for cheaper ME time
Q9: 63% say safety pilot time sharing is a great idea.

Do you think it matters to a recruiter how much multi dual received you have as opposed to solo multi or safety pilot?
 
Re: Survey says...

Do you think it matters to a recruiter how much multi dual received you have as opposed to solo multi or safety pilot?

When I interviewed for my CFI job one of the three interviewers said that he doesn't think safety pilot time is real time and that it shouldn't be logged (I went to ATP)... I promptly strongly (and genuinely) agreed with him about that. I think it is bull.

Everyone is different so don't be surprised when you encounter a recruiter who (rightfully) thinks that, at it's core, the INTENT of logging safety pilot time cannot be described as anything other than fradulent.

If you have 10 guys in front of you who would get all the multi students why waste the money on a MEI rating at this time in the economy/industry?

I had my MEI because I went to ATP. I had been instructing for a year before I got a multi student and that was only because his original instructor went to Great Lakes with 400 hours.

I don't know how much debt you have, but as you said "they probably aren't hiring for a couple years"... I sure wouldn't want any more debt.

And the million dollar question....
Just exactly how valuable are those extra 30-something hours of multi time you might get to log - to the airlines who aren't hiring during a depression (just wait)?
How valuable is it even when they've gotten to the point where they are recalling furloughs, but not hiring?

My student loan payment was due on the 15th.
 
Re: Survey says...

Do you think it matters to a recruiter how much multi dual received you have as opposed to solo multi or safety pilot?

Generally not, but occasionally you'll run into recruiters who aren't fond of safety pilot time. In the end, it's really all about having enough multi to get your foot in the door. As long as you didn't do anything illegal or pencil-whip, the exact breakdown is largely academic. What does matter is your interview and sim session. Of course, interviews are still more dependent upon companies actually hiring than your multi time :panic:

//must resist urge to encourage safety pilot time thread-drift...
 
Re: Survey says...

Do you think it matters to a recruiter how much multi dual received you have as opposed to solo multi or safety pilot?

I log my flights in accordance with 61.51 and FAA opinion letters. If a recruiter wants to throw out legitimate time, that is their prerogative. You can't please everyone's "opinion" of what should be logged. I use an electronic logbook so that I can easily query the database to give someone the time they want to see.
 
Even though you will find companies that say they don't like safety pilot time. Most won't even really care either way and some that say they might not like it still accept it. Few places will just throw that time out the window. Let's be honest, what is the role of a flight instructor? A glorified safety pilot?? I know there is responsibility that comes along with instructing but your really not manipulating the controls. For those that would argue that they would need to be able to take the controls should something go bad, well a safety pilot has that same responsibility. Why do you think they need to be appropriately rated in the same cat and class?

I also think that once these airlines and other outfits start hiring you will not be marketable to them if there are thousands of other pilots with a decent amount of multi time. And there are plently of people out there building that multi time. For that poster above who said his 10 hours a month isnt beneficial I wholeheartedly disagree.

When hiring opens up do you want to have to rush through your multi time building and be behind the curve and possibly miss an open window or be on the forefront and possibly escape a furlough because you got on early?
 
I appreciate all the comments that have come in regarding my survey and input for time building. What I'm gathering from all this is that safety pilot time may or may not be counted for hiring. Either way, ME time is valuable to have but much depends on the industry.
 
Let's be honest, what is the role of a flight instructor? A glorified safety pilot?? I know there is responsibility that comes along with instructing but your really not manipulating the controls. For those that would argue that they would need to be able to take the controls should something go bad, well a safety pilot has that same responsibility. Why do you think they need to be appropriately rated in the same cat and class?

There is a rather significant difference between being capable of taking controls in an unlikely emergency and teaching a newbie to fly a multi, in the first place. X-country safety pilot time is also nothing like the MEI experience of regularly being moments away from a Vmc roll.

The safety pilot level of knowledge != instructional level knowledge; and safety pilot time != instruction time.

That said, when you're just checking off the boxes for 1000TT/250ME, it matters little how you do it.
 
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