Multi-Engine Time Building

Maurus

Maurus

The Great Gazoo
So my new employer is willing to pay for time to get me flying his aircraft (insurance sucks). Looking for a minimum of 40-50 hours but if there is a good time building package out there as far and price and aircraft safety we will probably buy more.

Anyone know good places for some quick time building?

BTW I only have time in a Seneca II and PA-23-180.
 
Anything bad about APPP? Haven't seen anything bad about them other than that $20k for a job thing.
 
Ari Ben Aviator in Florida has 100 hours for $8k. I haven't flown with them, but at the same time I haven't heard as many bad things as APPP.
 
I was in Daytona yesterday and there is a school there with a twin Duchess with some pretty good prices on multi engine time building. It was $105 per hour dry if you have the coupon code ultimate010. This is total per plane--not per pilot. If you split it then it gets real reasonable.

To be honest, I haven't seen it this cheap in a long time.

The name of the school is Ultimate Air and the phone number is 386-631-0356.

Joe
 
adk said:
Ari Ben Aviator in Florida has 100 hours for $8k. I haven't flown with them, but at the same time I haven't heard as many bad things as APPP.
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I have a friend flying there, and I belive he`s really satisfied. And I dont think they have any restrictions on where u can or cant fly with theire planes (within the states).
 
JOEFRIDAY2 said:
To be honest, I haven't seen it this cheap in a long time.

The name of the school is Ultimate Air and the phone number is 386-631-0356.
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I wasn't aware Ultimate allowed solo rentals/non-flight instruction on their BE-76. Heck, in Daytona you can get a PA-44T for $179/hr wet, if you buy 10 hours at a time. If you've got the time to build, you can cover a heck of a lot more ground (if you want to go see stuff) with a PA-44T than you can with a BE-76
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
I wasn't aware Ultimate allowed solo rentals/non-flight instruction on their BE-76. Heck, in Daytona you can get a PA-44T for $179/hr wet, if you buy 10 hours at a time. If you've got the time to build, you can cover a heck of a lot more ground (if you want to go see stuff) with a PA-44T than you can with a BE-76
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Plane rentals seem to be a whole lot cheaper in Daytona compared to Ft Lauderdale or Orlando.

But I'm doing the math here and even with these really cheap plane rental rates, it still costs more to rent a cheap plane in Daytona than go to Gulfstream and get the 250 hours.

250 hours X $179.00 = $44,750.00
Tax 6% = $2,685.00

Total for 250 hours = $47,435.00


Going through Gulfstream and getting 250 hours = $29,000

F/O Pay at $19 per hour @ 250 hours = ($4750.00)

Net cost for the 250 hours at Gulfstream = $24,250.00


It looks like Gulfstream is cheaper by $23,185.00 over the cheapest multi time that I can find.

Anyone else got a cheaper way to build 250 multi engine hours this year?

Joe
 
JOEFRIDAY2 said:
Plane rentals seem to be a whole lot cheaper in Daytona compared to Ft Lauderdale or Orlando.

But I'm doing the math here and even with these really cheap plane rental rates, it still costs more to rent a cheap plane in Daytona than go to Gulfstream and get the 250 hours.

250 hours X $179.00 = $44,750.00
Tax 6% = $2,685.00

Total for 250 hours = $47,435.00


Going through Gulfstream and getting 250 hours = $29,000

F/O Pay at $19 per hour @ 250 hours = ($4750.00)

Net cost for the 250 hours at Gulfstream = $24,250.00


It looks like Gulfstream is cheaper by $23,185.00 over the cheapest multi time that I can find.

Anyone else got a cheaper way to build 250 multi engine hours this year?

Joe
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common math error. you forgot to figure in the cost of one's dignity, respect, and self-worth. obviously that figure will vary wildly, yielding different costs for different people.
 
"Anyone else got a cheaper way to build 250 multi engine hours this year?"

Yeah, you can buy my Apache for 35K, find a place to fly out of with auto gas, split the time with someone else, fly your 250 hours, will cost you 7.5K (250x3.00x20/2), sell the plane for 35K when your done. I'll throw in a fresh annual so you'll have a year to get it done.

PS: Buying a job as a way to build time cheapens the career and makes a mockery of the profession. Bad idea.
 
gne in prog said:
common math error. you forgot to figure in the cost of one's dignity, respect, and self-worth. obviously that figure will vary wildly, yielding different costs for different people.
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I dunno gne...... Seems to me that 250 multi engine hours in a Beach 1900 operating under 121 is whole lot better, for the professional pilot, than flying around Florida in a Dutchess or Seminole just building multi time.

The way everyone talks, you would think Gulfstream was charging more to get the multi engine time than you could do it on your own. When you do the math, it's almost half price to the the 250 hours at Gulfstream.

Were the numbers always this way or did something change?

Joe
 
DE727UPS said:
"Anyone else got a cheaper way to build 250 multi engine hours this year?"

Yeah, you can buy my Apache for 35K, find a place to fly out of with auto gas, split the time with someone else, fly your 250 hours, will cost you 7.5K (250x3.00x20/2), sell the plane for 35K when your done. I'll throw in a fresh annual so you'll have a year to get it done.

PS: Buying a job as a way to build time cheapens the career and makes a mockery of the profession. Bad idea.
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How much is the hanger/tie down, the upkeep and the insurance on that Apache?

I don't see that you are buying a job at Gulfstream. They aren't even hiring folks that go though their training program to fly at Gulfstream at this time because they are fully staffed. The way I understand it is you get your 250 hours and then you leave. In the future, if they have openings then you are free to apply for one of those openings just like anyone else is.

Frankly I don't see how this industry is going to get new pilots the experience they are going to need for their 1500 hour ATP requirements without programs similar to what Gulfstream offers.

It's a way for the airlines to contribute to part of the training cost using an apprenticeship type program. Most industries have apprenticeship programs except for this industry.

Teachers have apprenticeship programs. Cops have apprenticeship programs. Retail organizations have apprenticeship programs. Lawyers have apprenticeship programs. Even FAA examiners have apprenticeship programs. But pilots don't have apprenticeship programs, yet we expect them to magically gain the proper experience to fly passengers or cargo around.

I believe Pan Am and TWA used to train outside folks in their training centers for $$$ back in their day. Wonder if everyone was raising cane back then about those practices?

Joe
 
I wish I would have purchased a plane against your advise when I began this journey!

Regardless of that... this is a great offer. I'd love to have the means to take you up on it.

DE727UPS said:
"Anyone else got a cheaper way to build 250 multi engine hours this year?"

Yeah, you can buy my Apache for 35K, find a place to fly out of with auto gas, split the time with someone else, fly your 250 hours, will cost you 7.5K (250x3.00x20/2), sell the plane for 35K when your done. I'll throw in a fresh annual so you'll have a year to get it done.

PS: Buying a job as a way to build time cheapens the career and makes a mockery of the profession. Bad idea.
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