MQ-9 Reaper collision with SU-27

///AMG said:
I had to google that. Kinda cool. I assume this was, based on vague description, a gun dish (or similar) killer? Standard Navy/China Lake ingenuity
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I knew you would have to. Not a bad rework for older AIM-9s that could only be used by the F-8, semi active AIM-9a at that. Designed to use against gun dish, hot shot, land roll, drum tilt and even firecan. Upside was having a cheap and lightweight ARM, downside was having to get well inside the WEZ of these systems in order to employ it….but the idea was to pop from behind terrain and surprise the enemy ADA. Also, it retained the small 25lb warhead of the AIM-9, albeit from an L model and with prox fuses. But the best you’d get is a capes kill against a system. USMC Cobras carried them in Desert Storm. USAF didn’t want them due to having the AGM-45/78 and later -88 in inventory with dedicated Weasel shooters. Would’ve been nice for an A-10.
 
MikeD said:
I knew you would have to. Not a bad rework for older AIM-9s that could only be used by the F-8, semi active AIM-9a at that. Designed to use against gun dish, hot shot, land roll, drum tilt and even firecan. Upside was having a cheap and lightweight ARM, downside was having to get well inside the WEZ of these systems in order to employ it….but the idea was to pop from behind terrain and surprise the enemy ADA. Also, it retained the small 25lb warhead of the AIM-9, albeit from an L model and with prox fuses. But the best you’d get is a capes kill against a system. USMC Cobras carried them in Desert Storm. USAF didn’t want them due to having the AGM-45/78 and later -88 in inventory with dedicated Weasel shooters. Would’ve been nice for an A-10.
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Would it have made the A-10 more survivable in against an IAD threat?
 
killbilly said:
Would it have made the A-10 more survivable in against an IAD threat?
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Would’ve given us a better tool in the box against some of these short range tactical radar threats as we were operating in the same place as the USMC AV-8s and AH-1s were. But since the USAF had dedicated Weasel aircraft with the previously mentioned missiles, they weren’t interested. Only problem was, those planes were used against large strategic radars and SAM radar system, not against individual tactical radars and vehicle systems. So it would’ve been a nice to have.
 
killbilly said:
Would it have made the A-10 more survivable in against an IAD threat?
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We took them off helicopters for a host of good reasons. Basically it was a wingman’s revenge weapon in an era of TOW missiles.

Hawg may have been able to carry it without the penalty that Helos had due to weight of a 200 lbs missile (that’s 2x Hellfires).

With the advent of the AGM-114L we gained a fire and forget radar guided missile instead of a passive only missile (with no INU) so if the radar operator did what he was trained to do and shut down/standby when he got the separation alert it would have been a wasted shot, and unlike HARM it’s not in the air long enough to force them to shut off for very long.


Now all that said… there is discussion about a anti-radiation version of JAGM or NLOS to give us more ability to go offensive on SEAD/DEAD.

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Lawman said:
We took them off helicopters for a host of hood reasons. Basically it was a wingman’s revenge weapon in an era of TOW missiles.

Hawg may have been able to carry it without the penalty that Helos had due to weight of a 200 lbs missile (that’s 2x Hellfires).

With the advent of the AGM-114L we gained a fire and forget radar guided missile instead of a passive only missile (with no INU) so if the radar operator did what he was trained to do and shut down/standby when he got the separation alert it would have been a wasted shot, and unlike HARM it’s not in the air long enough to force them to shut off for very long.


Now all that said… there is discussion about a anti-radiation version of JAGM or NLOS to give us more ability to go offensive on SEAD/DEAD.

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The Army backed out of the whole Sidearm program early if I remember the history right. Marines seemed to like them fine. For us, since we weren’t AGM-114 capable, it would have been something that could at least lock up faster than a Maverick, just without the destructive ability though. However, we’d still be well inside the WEZ of whatever system, and where there’s one, well…there’s never just one. So they’d get their shot(s) at us too.
 
Lawman said:
Ok…
1. It’s a drone… in fact this is why we have them because if we lose it we don’t lose any sleep over it.

2. This is hardly the first instance of these kinds of shenanigans from the Russians or others for that matter. It’s pretty routine they do this stuff with our manned aircraft, so you can bet they will F with the robots.

Everybody take a drink and relax your sphincters.


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A case of "chicken" gone awry. Betcha that pilot is pissing was pissing his pants on his RTB.

Any "woke" folks on here? Was I wrong to have ASSumed the pilot was a male which was why I used the pronoun "his?"

UnMANNED drone? If anything, Russia learned "oh, the drone has rear facing cameras??

Flashback. I know what "Maverick" would have done. :biggrin: Go inverted Mav!
 
Old Pete said:
Larry McDonald assassination. The only democrat I have ever voted for, Anti-Communist, John Bircher, Navy veteran and rising politician.
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I can see the Soviets hating him, but man that’s a heck of a lot of collateral deaths and political fallout just to get one guy? Surely there would have been easier ways with far less hassle for the Soviets?
 
MFT1Air said:
A case of "chicken" gone awry. Betcha that pilot is pissing was pissing his pants on his RTB.

Any "woke" folks on here? Was I wrong to have ASSumed the pilot was a male which was why I used the pronoun "his?"

UnMANNED drone? If anything, Russia learned "oh, the drone has rear facing cameras??

Flashback. I know what "Maverick" would have done. :biggrin: Go inverted Mav!
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all of these drones with a sensor ball can see all around themselves, normally they face the sensor ball aft for both handoff between satellite control crews and line of sight crews, and also check their landing gear prior to landing.
 
MikeD said:
I can see the Soviets hating him, but man that’s a heck of a lot of collateral deaths and political fallout just to get one guy? Surely there would have been easier ways with far less hassle for the Soviets?
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I agree, but I would have expected that they knew he was on that airplane, and the fallout, but I think I’m expecting too much
 
MikeD said:
all of these drones with a sensor ball can see all around themselves, normally they face the sensor ball aft for both handoff between satellite control crews and line of sight crews, and also check their landing gear prior to landing.
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Again, news. . .to the Russians. :D
 
Old Pete said:
I agree, but I would have expected that they knew he was on that airplane, and the fallout, but I think I’m expecting too much
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you may be entirely right too. They very well may have known or expected the fallout and just didn’t care, or figured it was a worthy trade off.
 
MikeD said:
downside was having to get well inside the WEZ of these systems in order to employ it
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This seems to be the forever moving target in the Weasel-ing or IADs takedown line of work. Long before my time, but my understanding is that Shrike was pretty much a point blank shot as well. Standard ARM giving slightly more standoff, though used in less numbers (I believe limited to only F-105G and F-4G/WWIII and IV?). Sometimes the best solution isn't the most elegant though....I do kinda like the idea of confirming the kill right through your HUD, even if today, that would pretty much be suicide vs modern SAMs
 
///AMG said:
This seems to be the forever moving target in the Weasel-ing or IADs takedown line of work. Long before my time, but my understanding is that Shrike was pretty much a point blank shot as well. Standard ARM giving slightly more standoff, though used in less numbers (I believe limited to only F-105G and F-4G/WWIII and IV?). Sometimes the best solution isn't the most elegant though....I do kinda like the idea of confirming the kill right through your HUD, even if today, that would pretty much be suicide vs modern SAMs
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ARM’s will go the way of the dinosaur as concepts like “forward pass” and networking become more common place.

It won’t matter you can hit the radar…. There’s more than one sensor and they are all feeding telemetry.


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Lawman said:
ARM’s will go the way of the dinosaur as concepts like “forward pass” and networking become more common place.

It won’t matter you can hit the radar…. There’s more than one sensor and they are all feeding telemetry.


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Oh for sure. I think we effectively left ARM-centric engagements behind a while ago. Though they are still a tool of course.
 
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