Moxy and 60 A220s

[Cptnchia]

Admittedly I am quite the neophyte. But I am am trying to resolve the economics beyond salaries. Either those routes are covered by larger less profitable aircraft or smaller more profitable planes are added to the fleet and staffed accordingly. I’m totally guessing pay scales for the smaller jets might see a slight if any increase from regional scales. Not quite sure how removal of the regional “threat” would provide any leverage in negotiations. Again, this side of aviation is new for me. Thanks for your patience.


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I think you’re getting hung up on what you perceive to be the cost efficiency of the RJ. For the 50 seater, that thing is one of the most expensive to operate. Hence why Delta is aiming to have ZERO flying by the end of the year. We’ll see. Even the 70 seater is getting up there.

Why do you think Delta wants every 717 on the planet and became the launch customer for the A220? It’s scale of economy. On thin routes, 100 seats is the sweet spot for Delta.

Do you know what the most profitable airplane Delta flies? It’s the 757-300. The next most profitable is the MD88. Both cover their respective operating costs for the month in the first 5 days. Everything after that is gravy. Just because an RJ is small, doesn’t mean it’s necessarily cheaper to operate.

 

[skypilot6]

I'm curious how guys like Neeleman get their first big break? I understand that they're all from the same circles but still. And even then, how the heck do they get a new airline started from the ground up. Theres so much work to be done from an administrative standpoint. I guess lots of money and manpower helps.

This is a good read to answer those questions

https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Streak-jetBlue-Upstart-Industry/dp/1591840589

$5.99 shipped for a used one

 

[Rodger Wilco]

Any more info on moxy? Domiciles? Starting date?
It’s a gamble for sure

 

[Beep]

Any more info on moxy? Domiciles? Starting date?
It’s a gamble for sure

You’re probably thinking what I’m thinking, get in on the ground floor, initial cadre!!!

 

[Maximilian_Jenius]

I think you’re getting hung up on what you perceive to be the cost efficiency of the RJ. For the 50 seater, that thing is one of the most expensive to operate. Hence why Delta is aiming to have ZERO flying by the end of the year. We’ll see. Even the 70 seater is getting up there.

Why do you think Delta wants every 717 on the planet and became the launch customer for the A220? It’s scale of economy. On thin routes, 100 seats is the sweet spot for Delta.

Do you know what the most profitable airplane Delta flies? It’s the 757-300. The next most profitable is the MD88. Both cover their respective operating costs for the month in the first 5 days. Everything after that is gravy. Just because an RJ is small, doesn’t mean it’s necessarily cheaper to operate.

Sounds like Delta shouldn't have slept on the 753, while it was still in production.

 

[Nark]

Sounds like Delta shouldn't have slept on the 753, while it was still in production.

Delta wasn’t exactly the daring it is today, back in the 757 production days.
Today I can afford the prime rib. Back in the day as first year FO on the RJ, it was off brand ramen noodles. Times have changed for the better.

 

[RamRise]

I think you’re getting hung up on what you perceive to be the cost efficiency of the RJ. For the 50 seater, that thing is one of the most expensive to operate. Hence why Delta is aiming to have ZERO flying by the end of the year. We’ll see. Even the 70 seater is getting up there.
...
Just because an RJ is small, doesn’t mean it’s necessarily cheaper to operate.

Seems obvious enough to me that it's the reduced labor costs that make the RJ profitable in spite of it's higher seat-mile operating costs?

 

[Cptnchia]

Seems obvious enough to me that it's the reduced labor costs that make the RJ profitable in spite of it's higher seat-mile operating costs?

THat may be at some airlines. Delta makes their money on the premium they charge for Comfort+ and Delta One/first class. Those don’t exist in actuality on the small RJs, regardless of what they call row 1 and 2. If it’s not obvious by now, Delta isn’t chasing the low cost margin passenger like United is.

BTW, all this is from our revenue/marketing people.

 

[RamRise]

THat may be at some airlines. Delta makes their money on the premium they charge for Comfort+ and Delta One/first class. Those don’t exist in actuality on the small RJs, regardless of what they call row 1 and 2. If it’s not obvious by now, Delta isn’t chasing the low cost margin passenger like United is.

BTW, all this is from our revenue/marketing people.

The first 4 rows of the e175 are first class, and the 2nd 4 rows are comfort plus so I'm guessing on the 76 seaters they've got a similar strategy going.
Upgauging the long thin routes and the high demand high-frequency routes to the a220 seems like the logical next step for delta to increase capacity without sacrificing load factor.

We may have arrived to a point in time in the industry where 100-130 seaters are a winning bet now that demand for air travel is more consistent than during previous era's when the 737-200 and 717 were introduced.

I think the likes of moxy and other point-to-point airlines will take a sizeable market share from the network (hub-and-spoke) carriers in the not too distant future and so delta is building a fleet capable of competing with this emerging model.

 

[Cptnchia]

This gives you a better idea of what we’ve been talking about

https://skift.com/2018/08/20/delta-...th-fewer-middle-seats-on-key-business-routes/

 

[Cptnchia]

Delta to use A220s on existing routes for the time being

Looks like the 175s are getting a demotion.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

Delta wasn’t exactly the daring it is today, back in the 757 production days.

That's putting it delicately.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

THat may be at some airlines. Delta makes their money on the premium they charge for Comfort+ and Delta One/first class. Those don’t exist in actuality on the small RJs, regardless of what they call row 1 and 2. If it’s not obvious by now, Delta isn’t chasing the low cost margin passenger like United is.

BTW, all this is from our revenue/marketing people.

Bwahaha.

"Welcome aboard your SouthernJettes Connechsun flight to Hibbing. Fly Comfortable (not available on the -200). Fly refreshed (not available on the -200). Fly connected (also not available on the -200). (etc.)"

 

[zVo]

Looks like David Neeleman pen-and-inked a purchase-and-leaseback agreement with their lessor for the first nine A220s. Also, he alluded to the point that he is super fond of the name “Moxy” which may be the final name of the company.

 

[nibake]

There aren't many A220's out there in service, right? And they haven't been in service very long, right?

So if you're going to start a brand new airline with a type that very few people have experience on....

Being an economy airline and with the lower seating capacity, I can only imagine they don't intend to pay massive premiums to attract captains that have a decent amount of A220 time. So all this leads me to think they are going to start an entirely new airline with an entire cadre of captains who have no prior time on time. That seems crazy to me.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

I'll take a LOA from current Co and be try to partake in being initial Cadre on these Moxy A220s.

 

[nibake]

I'll take a LOA from current Co and be try to partake in being initial Cadre on these Moxy A220s.

Just made so much that money is no longer an item?

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

No man. I just wanted to use ‘initial Cadre’ in a sentence.

 

[Screaming_Emu]

Delta wasn’t exactly the daring it is today, back in the 757 production days.
Today I can afford the prime rib. Back in the day as first year FO on the RJ, it was off brand ramen noodles. Times have changed for the better.

Back in ‘07 they were pretty crap. Walking through the ATL airport was eye opening.

 

[Nark]

Back in ‘07 they were pretty crap. Walking through the ATL airport was eye opening.

Like Spirit of recent?