Money Talk$$$

Jonathan Jerome said:
I am a survivor. I always I find a way to support myself.
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I'm going to play the bad guy here. Don't take it too personally...

Nobody gives a flying fornication that YOU are a survivor.

Really good for you.

(small golf clap)

But by YOU being willing to fly for low pay because "you love to fly" and "have dreamed of flying since you were a wee little lad", you screw it up for the rest of us who actually are in this to be professionals.

Professionals who get paid what their skill set is worth whether we find the job to be fulfilling or not.

Or did get paid that until somebody like you comes along and agrees to do the job for less because the flying part gives you a hard on.

If you're in it just because you love to fly, get a plane and donate your time (and plane) to Angel Flight or something like that. They'll sure as hell appreciate it and you, being a survivor and all, should be just fine.

But, if you are going to go play in the 121 (or 135 or 91 professional) game, but on your damn big boy pants, act the part, and demand to be paid like a professional, just like the rest of us do.

If you can't do that, just stay the hell out. Better for everybody that way.
 
BobDDuck said:
I'm going to play the bad guy here. Don't take it too personally...

Nobody gives a flying fornication that YOU are a survivor.

Really good for you.

(small golf clap)

But by YOU being willing to fly for low pay because "you love to fly" and "have dreamed of flying since you were a wee little lad", you screw it up for the rest of us who actually are in this to be professionals.

Professionals who get paid what their skill set is worth whether we find the job to be fulfilling or not.

Or did get paid that until somebody like you comes along and agrees to do the job for less because the flying part gives you a hard on.

If you're in it just because you love to fly, get a plane and donate your time (and plane) to Angel Flight or something like that. They'll sure as hell appreciate it and you, being a survivor and all, should be just fine.

But, if you are going to go play in the 121 (or 135 or 91 professional) game, but on your damn big boy pants, act the part, and demand to be paid like a professional, just like the rest of us do.

If you can't do that, just stay the hell out. Better for everybody that way.
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Exactly. You can love to fly AND get paid well.
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ASpilot2be said:
Some people like to have a life outside of work. Its a balance.
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Oh yeah... I know. Public service, doesn't pay much. My job fortunately has unlimited OT, I typically work 24-32 hours of OT a week. I have no life pretty much, and sleep a lot. Sucks. But have to pay for school some how, and I hate living check to check. If I was in a better situation in life, and not in school and making a livable wage, I'd totally not be a workaholic. So my drive is out of necessity, not greed.

I dream of the day, I graduate school, start my career and don't have to always be on a grind.
 
ASpilot2be said:
Some people like to have a life outside of work. Its a balance.
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Addendum:

Not to knock @B767, but I just couldn't imagine living on $26k. I've been there, being broke sucks balls. Pilots seem to have lots of days off. If you have fifteen to twenty days off a month. Picking up a three or four day, still leaves you ten days off a month or more. Maybe I'm only saying this coming from having a non-pilot job, where in a normal month you only have a mere eight days off a month, and those are only weekends. As a regional pilot on first year pay, I'd want to avoid the soup line, if I can. And I'd do that by picking up a few extra "shifts", so I could live more comfortably and not have to worry about paying this bill or not. Or not having gas money, or food. That or paying my bills and then not having ANY money left over to do anything, and being a prisoner in my apartment or house. I've done all that before, it sucks. Not going backwards. Not saying that this is B767 situation, just my way of thinking is all. Also having a two income household makes everything better, but I'm only a one income household.
 
Maximillian_Jenius said:
Addendum:

Not to knock @B767, but I just couldn't imagine living on $26k. I've been there, being broke sucks balls. Pilots seem to have lots of days off. If you have fifteen to twenty days off a month. Picking up a three or four day, still leaves you ten days off a month or more. Maybe I'm only saying this coming from having a non-pilot job, where in a normal month you only have a mere eight days off a month, and those are only weekends. As a regional pilot on first year pay, I'd want to avoid the soup line, if I can. And I'd do that by picking up a few extra "shifts", so I could live more comfortably and not have to worry about paying this bill or not. Or not having gas money, or food. That or paying my bills and then not having ANY money left over to do anything, and being a prisoner in my apartment or house. I've done all that before, it sucks. Not going backwards. Not saying that this is B767 situation, just my way of thinking is all. Also having a two income household makes everything better, but I'm only a one income household.
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Depends on where you live. I think 2600 wouldnt be bad if someone had super cheap rent, no car payment, and just student loans to pay.
 
Maximillian_Jenius said:
Addendum:

Not to knock @B767, but I just couldn't imagine living on $26k. I've been there, being broke sucks balls. Pilots seem to have lots of days off. If you have fifteen to twenty days off a month. Picking up a three or four day, still leaves you ten days off a month or more. Maybe I'm only saying this coming from having a non-pilot job, where in a normal month you only have a mere eight days off a month, and those are only weekends. As a regional pilot on first year pay, I'd want to avoid the soup line, if I can. And I'd do that by picking up a few extra "shifts", so I could live more comfortably and not have to worry about paying this bill or not. Or not having gas money, or food. That or paying my bills and then not having ANY money left over to do anything, and being a prisoner in my apartment or house. I've done all that before, it sucks. Not going backwards. Not saying that this is B767 situation, just my way of thinking is all. Also having a two income household makes everything better, but I'm only a one income household.
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Some airlines and countries do not permit a certain amount of overtime. Also perhaps he is on reserve.

That's just company reasons. There may also be personal reasons (child care, commute, etc)
 
Koenigsberger_Katjase said:
Some airlines and countries do not permit a certain amount of overtime. Also perhaps he is on reserve.

That's just company reasons. There may also be personal reasons (child care, commute, etc)
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True, true. But I want to stress not necessarily talking about him, or his situation. I just saw the figure and was like wow... and thought about what I would do, if I was a regional pilot on first year pay and making that figure. And didn't want to move back to Tucson, AZ. and live with my parents. But yes, you do make good points, that I hadn't considered.
 
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Maximillian_Jenius said:
True, true. But I want to stress not necessarily talking about him, or his situation. I just saw the figure and was like wow... and thought about what I would do, if I was a regional pilot on first year pay and making that figure. And didn't want to move back to Tucson, AZ. and live with my parents. But yes, you do make good points.
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When I lived in Phoenix some of my friends were making some unreal sacrifices for pilot jobs. Even my instructors, though they said it was one of the better instructing jobs around.

Like you, I don't understand. The American pilot scene reminds me of professional football where for every top player there are 100 players in the Bundesliga 3 who want his job.

The good thing about ab initio is you have a good idea from the start which direction your career will head (and whether you should change direction)
 
Koenigsberger_Katjase said:
When I lived in Phoenix some of my friends were making some unreal sacrifices for pilot jobs. Even my instructors, though they said it was one of the better instructing jobs around.

Like you, I don't understand. The American pilot scene reminds me of professional football where for every top player there are 100 players in the Bundesliga 3 who want his job.

The good thing about ab initio is you have a good idea from the start which direction your career will head (and whether you should change direction)
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Sounds like you attended CAE/OAA! :)
 
Jonathan Jerome said:
I am a survivor. I always I find a way to support myself.
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Since you're talking about money, and I have no idea your age or what your circumstances are:

But assuming you're fairly young (less than 25), the problem with the extremely low wages of a pilot at the beginning while saddled with flight training loans, is that while you might be able to meet living expenses and pay off your loans, you don't have much left over to start saving for retirement, so you don't. --- it's a long ways off so it's out of sight out of mind, - I'll make up for it later and start saving when I get to a bigger airline and start making the bigger bucks...

The problem with that is though you (may) make more money later, you'll have to invest a lot more later to make less money on your investment for retirement, you miss out on the power of compounding.

http://www.businessinsider.com/amazing-power-of-compound-interest-2014-7

No I didn't think about this either when I was 21-22-23, etc. but it's staring me in the face now that I'm a lot closer to retiring.
 
BobDDuck said:
I'm going to play the bad guy here. Don't take it too personally...

Nobody gives a flying fornication that YOU are a survivor.

Really good for you.

(small golf clap)

But by YOU being willing to fly for low pay because "you love to fly" and "have dreamed of flying since you were a wee little lad", you screw it up for the rest of us who actually are in this to be professionals.

Professionals who get paid what their skill set is worth whether we find the job to be fulfilling or not.

Or did get paid that until somebody like you comes along and agrees to do the job for less because the flying part gives you a hard on.

If you're in it just because you love to fly, get a plane and donate your time (and plane) to Angel Flight or something like that. They'll sure as hell appreciate it and you, being a survivor and all, should be just fine.

But, if you are going to go play in the 121 (or 135 or 91 professional) game, but on your damn big boy pants, act the part, and demand to be paid like a professional, just like the rest of us do.

If you can't do that, just stay the hell out. Better for everybody that way.
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Harsh, but accurate (and needed to be said)! This IS the real deal...and best to learn this deal now while you're still in training.
 
Maximillian_Jenius said:
Addendum:

Not to knock @B767, but I just couldn't imagine living on $26k. I've been there, being broke sucks balls. Pilots seem to have lots of days off. If you have fifteen to twenty days off a month. Picking up a three or four day, still leaves you ten days off a month or more. Maybe I'm only saying this coming from having a non-pilot job, where in a normal month you only have a mere eight days off a month, and those are only weekends. As a regional pilot on first year pay, I'd want to avoid the soup line, if I can. And I'd do that by picking up a few extra "shifts", so I could live more comfortably and not have to worry about paying this bill or not. Or not having gas money, or food. That or paying my bills and then not having ANY money left over to do anything, and being a prisoner in my apartment or house. I've done all that before, it sucks. Not going backwards. Not saying that this is B767 situation, just my way of thinking is all. Also having a two income household makes everything better, but I'm only a one income household.
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True, you only have 8 days off a month working a 'regular' job. But you're also home every night. So how does being home 30-31 nights a month and 8 full days (more on some months) off compare to being 'off' for 15 where you're only home for 10-11 if you're a commuter. So tell me again, who's got more time off, at home???

Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining. I like my job, I like the lifestyle...but to suggest because someone has, on paper, 15 days off a month that they should just pick up another 4-day trip to make ends meet is nonsense. That'd bring your time at home down to 5-6 days. If, and that's a big if, you live in base, it makes it somewhat more doable. But the reality is the majority of 121 pilots are commuters. Time at home is precious to maintaining any semblance of a normal life.

I'm certainly not attacking you, Max. Just want to point out these large number of days off per month many see on paper are not always real 'days off'.
 
BobDDuck said:
I'm going to play the bad guy here. Don't take it too personally...

Nobody gives a flying fornication that YOU are a survivor.

Really good for you.

(small golf clap)

But by YOU being willing to fly for low pay because "you love to fly" and "have dreamed of flying since you were a wee little lad", you screw it up for the rest of us who actually are in this to be professionals.

Professionals who get paid what their skill set is worth whether we find the job to be fulfilling or not.

Or did get paid that until somebody like you comes along and agrees to do the job for less because the flying part gives you a hard on.

If you're in it just because you love to fly, get a plane and donate your time (and plane) to Angel Flight or something like that. They'll sure as hell appreciate it and you, being a survivor and all, should be just fine.

But, if you are going to go play in the 121 (or 135 or 91 professional) game, but on your damn big boy pants, act the part, and demand to be paid like a professional, just like the rest of us do.

If you can't do that, just stay the hell out. Better for everybody that way.
Click to expand...

This ought to be a post not just about aviation, but real life. I have....stories....about this same thing.

Pros should be paid as pros. In any field.
 
Guys making $300K plus are paying at least 33% just in federal incone taxes. Some may be paying closer to 40%. Factor in state income taxes, union dues, etc... That big earnings statement gets whittled away pretty quick.
 
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