Mom questioned about biracial daughter after flight at DIA

I don’t think anyone is arguing that trafficking for various reasons ISNT happening, or that we shouldn’t be having law enforcement dealing with it. But when activists are trying to count kids who were in custody of the wrong parent or couch surfing with friends/relatives (even if a lot of those kids were in bad situations), like in that Georgia deal, that badly muddles the picture of how things need to be addressed. And it makes people like me really skeptical when big numbers are thrown around.

That is literally no different than what (for example only) the anti-gun crowd does with statistics to inflate numbers for their cause.

Scale inflation is something every advocacy group does because social attention is finite especially now when there is so much social networking to be lost in.

There was a hard number somewhere on the percentage of Amber alerts that were literally just custody fights gone way outside civil. Like not “dude grabbed his daughter from school and ran,” but “wife was mad they weren’t back on time and calls cops to report abduction.” The program is so misused it’s finally starting to granger attention for amending the process. But don’t let that spoil those numbers for some abduction advocacy group. They are happy to use them.


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Right, but ... I hate to be like this but:

Show your work.

Data come in various grades of squishiness, from "nebulous" to "hard." We have lost the concept of "rigor" in the realm of public discourse, and we bandy about data as if they are all equal; see also the trap of expertise. (Even experts rely on the expertise of others in areas they themselves may be unqualified to comment or vet)

Social consensus, even among scientists, does not equate to expert consensus. See also: displacement of expertise. (aka. "Wings don't work that way," -pilot; "Well Joe says they do, and Joe is a Ph.D. Neuroscientist! A literal brain surgeon!")

I'm not saying the numbers are wrong, mind you. I'm saying that I question their quality, their source, and the underlying data.

I very purposely didn't give a number. There aren't hard numbers on this because a) the lack of reporting and b) the squishiness over what exactly is trafficking (you know it when you see it?). The UNODC has been pretty good about aggregating data on a global level, as well as providing individual regional profiles. The North America data (and specifically the US data) comes from the FBI, DOJ, DHS, and DHS. It is far from complete because often times state level investigations don't make into a national database. While this data aggregating is relatively new (think: 10 years or so) the challenges faced with collecting it are similar to those with using rape data to project a total number of rapes that might have occurred. That data aggregation has been happening for much longer and there is a fairly large amount of research into the underreporting end of things, and the UN has suggested using the same inflation number to get a more realistic trafficking number would probably work.

 
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Part of one article I recently read as I try to keep up on this a bit, especially with the uptick in children being trafficked across our Southern borders.

Digging into US crimes of human trafficking and forced labor
By Xin Shiyan Published: Aug 18, 2021


Who is still selling slaves? Who is the perpetrator of forced labor? Evidence of forced labor and human trafficking in the US is all too clear. Still, the US is playing the "human rights card" in the international arena. It is in fact playing the trick of a thief crying "stop thief!"

First, the slave trade and forced labor have never gone away in the US.

Numerous facts have proven that "modern slavery" is nowadays still pervasive in the US., Gross violations of human rights such as human trafficking and forced labor continue to emerge one after another.

Statistics show that as many as 100,000 people are trafficked into the US from abroad for forced labor every year. Most of them are from nearly 40 countries and regions such as India, Mexico, Vietnam, Africa and Central and South America. They are sold to sweatshops in the US working as coolies, not protected by any labor or employment laws and regulations. Research by the University of Pennsylvania found that there are at least 500,000 people in the US currently living in the conditions of modern slavery.

Moreover, it's estimated that between 15,000 to 50,000 women and children are forced into sexual slavery in the US every year, while a report by the University of Pennsylvania estimated the figure between 100,000 and 300,000 and one study from the Department of Health and Human Services put it between 240,000 and 325,000.


The surveys and statistics all show that the slave trade has never left the US, and that forced labor is still deeply entrenched in the US. It is a modern form of slavery that exists throughout the US.

Second, human trafficking and forced labor are rampant in the US.

In the past five years, all 50 states in the US and the District of Columbia have reported cases of forced labor and human trafficking. Up to 100,000 people are trafficked into the US for forced labor annually and half of them are sold to sweatshops or enslaved in households. In 2019 alone, the FBI reported 1,883 cases of human trafficking, over 500 more than 2018.

The serious problem of child labor is the darkness under the light of the "beacon of human rights." According to the statistics of some US industry associations, there are approximately 500,000 child farm workers in the US. Many of these children start work as young as age 8, working 72 hours a week.


Worse, the US prison system is even more like a shelter of forced labor. The US has the world's largest prison system, with 2.3 million people currently incarcerated. According to the Black Agenda Report, people in US prisons have no legal protection and no right to refuse the use of their labor.

According to the Los Angeles Times, in the wake of the COVID-19 pandemic in 2020, inmates in a women's prison in Chino, California, were forced to produce masks for up to 12 hours a day for just 8 cents to $1 an hour at the risk of infection. Ironically, they churned out masks by the thousands but were forbidden from wearing them."

From another:
"Trafficking occurs in both legal and illicit industries, including in commercial sex, hospitality, traveling sales crews, agriculture, janitorial services, construction, restaurants, care for persons with disabilities, salon services, massage parlors, fairs and carnivals, peddling and begging, drug smuggling and distribution, and childcare and domestic work," said the 2018 Trafficking in Persons Report.

How serious is human trafficking in the United States? In the past five years, cases of forced labor and human trafficking have been reported in all 50 states and Washington D.C. Up to 100,000 people are trafficked into the United States for forced labor annually and half of them are sold to sweatshops or enslaved in households. According to the National Human Trafficking Hotline, the number of reported cases increased significantly from more than 3,200 in 2012 to more than 8,500 in 2017.

Women and children account for a significant proportion of human trafficking cases in the US, and many of them are victims of sex trafficking. According to a 2020 report by DeliverFund, a US counter-human trafficking intelligence organization, it is estimated that between 15,000 to 50,000 women and children are forced into sexual slavery in the US every year.

This is from Newsweek:
10 Missing Children Found in Ohio's Largest Sex Sting, 161 People Arrested

Also:
2021 Trafficking in Persons Report

 
Ever since “wayfair is selling kids!” And “37 trafficked kids in a trailer in Georgia!” I’ve become deeply skeptical of the various claims regarding human trafficking.
Don’t forget about “drinking kids blood”. Absolute morons
 
I don't know the exact numbers, but my cousin is an RN and works at St. Luke's a behavioral hospital here in PHX. They're the only level one acute trauma behavioral hospital for children and adolescents. He says that the have a 23 hr. observation unit for kids. Also currently have 2 dedicated units (48 beds) for adolescents and children. And are thinking about expanding on the kids units, because of the severe need. They also recently opened a 24 bed child/adolescent traffick unit. Why? Because the trafficked kids were naturally very sexually aggressive. And didn't mix or socialize too well with the general psych kids. They were often sexually assaulting their roommates, or sneaking out of their rooms at night to have sex with peers. Sometimes even adult staff... :rolleyes: Lots of 1:1's on that unit. 1:1 (one to one) meaning a staff is closely watching the patient and is in arms reach at all times to prevent them from acting out. Sometimes even 2:1's ordered.

I knew Tye when I worked there in 2010-2015. :oops:


While this is tragic, it’s not really related to human trafficking.

This is part of the problem with all of these “statistics” thrown around on this. Everything is thrown under the umbrella of “trafficking” so the activists can inflate the problem to get more attention. Voluntary prostitution is called trafficking. Women seeking out and agreeing to work in massage parlors in exchange for assistance in getting to the U.S. is called trafficking. A father who gets fed up with a bogus court ordered visitation policy grabs his own kid and runs it gets called trafficking.

If you restrict the numbers to real trafficking, actually kidnapping and forcing people into physical or sexual slavery, then I suspect the numbers are minuscule.
 
I'm not a Cop. Unlike most of you commies, I like Cops (or at least the fact that they exist), but I'm still not one. And neither is an F/A. If we have serious problem with human trafficking in the US, here's a radical idea: We could get together a bunch of cops who specialize in human trafficking, then fund them to go out and catch human-traffickers. Or is that too radical a solution?
 
I'm not a Cop. Unlike most of you commies, I like Cops (or at least the fact that they exist), but I'm still not one. And neither is an F/A. If we have serious problem with human trafficking in the US, here's a radical idea: We could get together a bunch of cops who specialize in human trafficking, then fund them to go out and catch human-traffickers. Or is that too radical a solution?
It’s the new/Texas crowdsourced enforcement model
 
She should have just said it was her emotional support companion,
every one would have just sent her on her way
 
Years ago I was getting ready to depart in a 172 with my wife for an Ironman she was doing in AGS. We had her bike and a ton of her gear in the plane which looked like a lot, despite the fact that none of it weighs much (by design). It so happened that the plane was sitting up on its nose strut when I got there morning.

Anyways, our A&P comes running out of the hangar asking about my W&B. I had done the W&B at home and left it at home, so I didn't have it on me (that's on me), but I assured him that everything was under gross and within CG. Still, he brought out a scale and insisted I pull everything out and weigh it and do the W&B for him to see. I did, it came out in the green, and as soon as I started the engine the strut came down.

Point of this story is that I could have been an ass about the experience and been angry that he didn't trust my telling him I had done the W&B, and angry about the fact that he insisted that I pull everything out. But I wasn't. I was grateful he was looking out for me, and knew if I had seen an aircraft heavily packed and sitting on its tail, I would have been concerned too.

So why can't we just recognize that in an effort to stop something horrible from happening, concerned individuals might pick up on cues and ask us questions? Why can't the mom be grateful that the airline was looking out for her daughter (and everyone's kids) well-being? Answering a few questions is certainly less of a burden then unpacking and repacking a plane.
 
Years ago I was getting ready to depart in a 172 with my wife for an Ironman she was doing in AGS. We had her bike and a ton of her gear in the plane which looked like a lot, despite the fact that none of it weighs much (by design). It so happened that the plane was sitting up on its nose strut when I got there morning.

Anyways, our A&P comes running out of the hangar asking about my W&B. I had done the W&B at home and left it at home, so I didn't have it on me (that's on me), but I assured him that everything was under gross and within CG. Still, he brought out a scale and insisted I pull everything out and weigh it and do the W&B for him to see. I did, it came out in the green, and as soon as I started the engine the strut came down.

Point of this story is that I could have been an ass about the experience and been angry that he didn't trust my telling him I had done the W&B, and angry about the fact that he insisted that I pull everything out. But I wasn't. I was grateful he was looking out for me, and knew if I had seen an aircraft heavily packed and sitting on its tail, I would have been concerned too.

So why can't we just recognize that in an effort to stop something horrible from happening, concerned individuals might pick up on cues and ask us questions? Why can't the mom be grateful that the airline was looking out for her daughter (and everyone's kids) well-being? Answering a few questions is certainly less of a burden then unpacking and repacking a plane.
Because we're a much less civil society than we were 40 or 50 years ago.
 
Years ago I was getting ready to depart in a 172 with my wife for an Ironman she was doing in AGS. We had her bike and a ton of her gear in the plane which looked like a lot, despite the fact that none of it weighs much (by design). It so happened that the plane was sitting up on its nose strut when I got there morning.

Anyways, our A&P comes running out of the hangar asking about my W&B. I had done the W&B at home and left it at home, so I didn't have it on me (that's on me), but I assured him that everything was under gross and within CG. Still, he brought out a scale and insisted I pull everything out and weigh it and do the W&B for him to see. I did, it came out in the green, and as soon as I started the engine the strut came down.

Point of this story is that I could have been an ass about the experience and been angry that he didn't trust my telling him I had done the W&B, and angry about the fact that he insisted that I pull everything out. But I wasn't. I was grateful he was looking out for me, and knew if I had seen an aircraft heavily packed and sitting on its tail, I would have been concerned too.

So why can't we just recognize that in an effort to stop something horrible from happening, concerned individuals might pick up on cues and ask us questions? Why can't the mom be grateful that the airline was looking out for her daughter (and everyone's kids) well-being? Answering a few questions is certainly less of a burden then unpacking and repacking a plane.
Assume it was a rental?

With my aircraft I might assure someone a W&B was completed, but I‘d not unloaded it to be weighed. Of course it has an aft CG, the front seats are empty.

Did he make your wife get on the scale?
 
It’s a myth. It reminds me of the “Snuff films” of the ‘70s and 80’s or the “crush videos” of about 5 years ago. Didn’t exist, but it didn’t stop politicians from making it an “issue “.
My wife, a criminal defense attorney, who has literally had thousands of clients over the last 25 years, has never had represented a client accused of human/sex trafficking. Why? because she doesn’t represent unicorns.
Other sex crimes? Of course.
And I’m not sure what the politicians(I’m including you police sex crimes task force leader ) are getting out of it, by announcing a human trafficking ring bust, which turns out to be nothing more than misdemeanor prostitution, other than a loss of credibility.
 
Assume it was a rental?

With my aircraft I might assure someone a W&B was completed, but I‘d not unloaded it to be weighed. Of course it has an aft CG, the front seats are empty.

Did he make your wife get on the scale?

Flying club plane. He was the A&P that did all our work (not associated with the Club).

Negative on the wife fortunately.
 
It’s a myth. It reminds me of the “Snuff films” of the ‘70s and 80’s or the “crush videos” of about 5 years ago. Didn’t exist, but it didn’t stop politicians from making it an “issue “.
My wife, a criminal defense attorney, who has literally had thousands of clients over the last 25 years, has never had represented a client accused of human/sex trafficking. Why? because she doesn’t represent unicorns.
Other sex crimes? Of course.
And I’m not sure what the politicians(I’m including you police sex crimes task force leader ) are getting out of it, by announcing a human trafficking ring bust, which turns out to be nothing more than misdemeanor prostitution, other than a loss of credibility.

There is a fair point mixed in here somewhere - that being that sex trafficking counts are inflated simply because of how we classify such things. Most of us think of sex trafficking as what happened to Liam Neeson's daughter in Taken, but the vast majority of cases are simply when a pimp drives his prostitute somewhere for a meet up. The truth is that most "sex trafficking" is just regular prostitution.

Interestingly one of my friends/co-workers in Tampa had made it her cause - and would get very emotional/angry when I mentioned the above to her. Coincidentally she was also good friends with Matt Gaetz. So, you know - awkward.
 
It’s a myth. It reminds me of the “Snuff films” of the ‘70s and 80’s or the “crush videos” of about 5 years ago. Didn’t exist, but it didn’t stop politicians from making it an “issue “.

Whats not a myth is the government “traffic safety” films from the 50s, 60s & 70s like “Red Asphalt” and “Blood Flows Red on the Highway”.

They do exist, and they’re petty bad.
 
Whats not a myth is the government “traffic safety” films from the 50s, 60s & 70s like “Red Asphalt” and “Blood Flows Red on the Highway”.

They do exist, and they’re petty bad.

The one I remember was “signal 30” if that’s what you’re talking about. Showing kids blood and gore in a sort of perverse “scared straight” way. I assume whatever they show kids these days are a bit less gory.
 
The one I remember was “signal 30” if that’s what you’re talking about. Showing kids blood and gore in a sort of perverse “scared straight” way. I assume whatever they show kids these days are a bit less gory.

Yup. Several states put them out, Ohio and California, back when they didn’t care about people’s feelings.
 
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