Missing 1900

I have not kept up with the details of this accident but I will pass something on from pilots I worked under to the pilots in which work under my command. A controller is there to manage not control. Most controllers will go home every night, the question is will you? I have never forgotten those lessons, and no pilot should allow a controller to control his or her aircraft! Situation awareness please!!
Great advice. As tragic as this incident is... I have used it as a learning tool for my instrument students. Never accept a clearnace or any instruction from ATC without verifying with your approach plate, or is the case of holding, that you have enough fuel to maintain legality for the amount of time they want you to hold for. This just sucks all around though. Bad day for ATC and for the pilots.
 
I have not kept up with the details of this accident but I will pass something on from pilots I worked under to the pilots in which work under my command. A controller is there to manage not control. Most controllers will go home every night, the question is will you? I have never forgotten those lessons, and no pilot should allow a controller to control his or her aircraft! Situation awareness please!!
All that aside, I very commonly get vectors at altitudes to join an approach lower than any safe altitude on the chart. I get arcs at lower altitudes than the minimum altitude on the arc is etc, so if a controller gives me an altitude, especially if I'm unfamiliar with the area, I have to assume it's safe. I don't know what the MVA is, those are not published.
 
All that aside, I very commonly get vectors at altitudes to join an approach lower than any safe altitude on the chart. I get arcs at lower altitudes than the minimum altitude on the arc is etc, so if a controller gives me an altitude, especially if I'm unfamiliar with the area, I have to assume it's safe. I don't know what the MVA is, those are not published.

Yeah... always a rather terrifying thought.
 
All that aside, I very commonly get vectors at altitudes to join an approach lower than any safe altitude on the chart. I get arcs at lower altitudes than the minimum altitude on the arc is etc, so if a controller gives me an altitude, especially if I'm unfamiliar with the area, I have to assume it's safe. I don't know what the MVA is, those are not published.
Do you query the controller about the lower altitude assignment?
 
Sometimes. I guess it depends. Do you query a controller ever time he gives you a lower altitude? I doubt it.
I query anyte I get something that doesn't jive with my mental picture of what should be happening.

I drive the airplane, the controller controls at my leisure.
 
When flying IFR I spend more time on the VFR sectional than most and with the iPad that's really easy to do. Not saying I was smarter than the crew but had someone looked at the sectional an alarm would have gone off.

As an ATC'er I've seen IAF minimum altitudes 11,000 feet higher than the MVA.

20z4lc6.png
 
When flying IFR I spend more time on the VFR sectional than most and with the iPad that's really easy to do. Not saying I was smarter than the crew but had someone looked at the sectional an alarm would have gone off.

As an ATC'er I've seen IAF minimum altitudes 11,000 feet higher than the MVA.

20z4lc6.png

It's not a bad idea for terrain awareness, though most of us flying professionally don't have access to VFR charts. Major obstacles are also shown on approach plates, as you know.

A momentary lapse of situational awareness, a bit of fatigue, unfamiliarity... All could lead to this happening. Nobody operates at 100% at all times, hence the 121 turbine requirement for GPWS/TAWS. Glad to have it.
 
It's not a bad idea for terrain awareness, though most of us flying professionally don't have access to VFR charts. Major obstacles are also shown on approach plates, as you know.

A momentary lapse of situational awareness, a bit of fatigue, unfamiliarity... All could lead to this happening. Nobody operates at 100% at all times, hence the 121 turbine requirement for GPWS/TAWS. Glad to have it.

You still have to respond correctly to a "Terrain! Pull up!"

Pitch Power
Gear Flaps
Trim Turn
Avoid the Threat
Protect your Power

That'll get you out of trouble
 
You still have to respond correctly to a "Terrain! Pull up!"

Pitch Power
Gear Flaps
Trim Turn
Avoid the Threat
Protect your Power

That'll get you out of trouble

Speed brakes up after pitch and power might have saved AA in Cali. It was very close.
 
When flying IFR I spend more time on the VFR sectional than most and with the iPad that's really easy to do. Not saying I was smarter than the crew but had someone looked at the sectional an alarm would have gone off.

As an ATC'er I've seen IAF minimum altitudes 11,000 feet higher than the MVA.

Yep, and there's no real way to know what they are as a pilot.

Here's an example off the top of my head that I've flown in the past.

LMT VOR/DME 14 - http://skyvector.com/files/tpp/1303/pdf/00473VDT14.PDF
Route is OED V122 LMT at 9000, which is the MEA for the airway. ATC will clear you to join the arc from the airway with a climb to 10,000ft.. Minimum altitude on the chart for the arc out there is 11300. MSA for the area is 9500 though. You can see on the chart the highest obstacle that you're close to is at 8208'.
 
I used to fly into LMT everyday for a couple of months when I was flying out of PDX. I was coming in from the NW off the airway into MIXUP. Very scenic, but a lot of terrain out there. Very good example z987k.
 
It's not a bad idea for terrain awareness, though most of us flying professionally don't have access to VFR charts. Major obstacles are also shown on approach plates, as you know.

You guys don't have iPads in the cockpit?
 
Assume there is a policy against carrying your own?

No, but there's certainly a policy against using it for navigation. ;)

I don't really see much use for a sectional with the appropriate approach plates, however. Not bad for situational awareness, but certainly safe to operate IFR without them. VFR charts outside the US may be nonexistent or inaccurate, anyway.
 
No, but there's certainly a policy against using it for navigation. ;)

I don't really see much use for a sectional with the appropriate approach plates, however. Not bad for situational awareness, but certainly safe to operate IFR without them. VFR charts outside the US may be nonexistent or inaccurate, anyway.
Good approach charts have the pertinent terrain depicted on them, too, so it's a non-issue.

I don't have the Jepps for the accident airport, but I will bet you a few beers that there's more detail present in the little black book than there is on the NACO plates best used for lining a birdcage.
 
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