Missed Approach procedures while conducting practice approaches while IFR

[NovemberEcho]

I am out now, if i get ahold of the aim I'll look up the reference, otherwise ill necropost in the winter on recurrent.

Enough of this monkeying around

 

[z987k]

I agree. We're still gonna fly straight and clean up the aircraft while the non fly tries again.

Just to be extremely clear, lets say we're talking the ILS 31L at JFK. The missed approach instructions on the plate are climb to 500ft then climbing left turn to 3000, intercepting the JFK-190 outbound to Chant.

You are at DH, you go missed and tell the tower you're missed to no immediate response, you have been instructed by your company and you are going to climb straight ahead well past 500 feet(only a few seconds after going missed) and not turn, awaiting ATC instructions correct?
Or are you saying that your company has had people report the missed at DH and more or less instantaneously(rather than above 500ft) made the left climbing turn to chant?

 

[jynxyjoe]

You are at DH, you go missed and tell the tower you're missed to no immediate response, you have been instructed by your company and you are going to climb straight ahead well past 500 feet(only a few seconds after going missed) and not turn, awaiting ATC instructions correct?

If this is simply for the purposes of being clear, option above. And if you mean well past meaning i finally got ahold of them at 800ft, then even easier for me to swing the knob since I'll have the auto on too.

I will not take this to the theater of the absurd when i fly wherever i want and fly straight until i run out of gas in Ohio.

Also, the only differal is one of the coffee makers, nothing else broke. There are no service monkies onboard either.

Not that it's a huge proof but ive been missed ifr and vfr (with no visual issued) on 31L, 31R and 22L. And 31L was a turn somewhere in the mid one thousand if i remember right. Ive only been on a published missed at non towered fields and still would unless otherwise instructed. I have yet to be issued published missed at a towered field. Except in sim.

 

[Stinger]

To give another example, the best approach we have at TEB is the RNAV 19. But we can't use it because the published missed puts you right in the EWR 22L final. We can't create some LOA with TEB tower with alternate missed approach instructions.

Why can't you? Have TEB put in their LOA with you to issue some heading/altitude that doesn't conflict with the 22L arrivals.
It's included in the LOA with towers underlying my approach to issue runway heading in the event of unplanned go-arounds. It's not the heading I'd have picked, because they'll be in Mexican airspace in 2 miles off one airport and 5 miles off the other, but that's the default they'll issue unless I tell them something else.

 

[greg1016]

Why can't you? Have TEB put in their LOA with you to issue some heading/altitude that doesn't conflict with the 22L arrivals.
It's included in the LOA with towers underlying my approach to issue runway heading in the event of unplanned go-arounds. It's not the heading I'd have picked, because they'll be in Mexican airspace in 2 miles off one airport and 5 miles off the other, but that's the default they'll issue unless I tell them something else.

The purpose of a published missed approach segment to a towered airport is a contingent for a NORDO situation. This way the pilot does not do anything to surprise controllers. An LOA with TEB would not be good enough, the published missed should be changed if it conflicts with other traffic and it sounds like a good ATSAP candidate to me.

At my tower, if a pilot announces going missed, I instruct them to maintain 3000, fly runway heading. Then I call approach, inform them of the missed, and they usually give me a 180 heading, but not always. The published missed is fly runway heading to 1700 then climbing southerly turn to 3000 direct the VOR and hold. No one ever does that except in practice approach situations. We do have an LOA where approach can put alternate instructions into the datablock scratch pad and then we can issue those instructions without a call, but we only use that for planned (practice) missed approaches.

 

[NovemberEcho]

Why can't you? Have TEB put in their LOA with you to issue some heading/altitude that doesn't conflict with the 22L arrivals.
It's included in the LOA with towers underlying my approach to issue runway heading in the event of unplanned go-arounds. It's not the heading I'd have picked, because they'll be in Mexican airspace in 2 miles off one airport and 5 miles off the other, but that's the default they'll issue unless I tell them something else.

The 22L arrivals are descending to 2500 directly overtop rwy 19 at TEB. The MVA is 1800. We can't just assign headings and altitudes below the MVA, especially in weather that would make us want to use the GPS19 because it has lower mins than the ILS 19

 

[Stinger]

The purpose of a published missed approach segment to a towered airport is a contingent for a NORDO situation.

Depends....some of the approaches I work have the instruction on the published missed to fly a heading and then expect radar vectors. That's tough to do when you're NORDO.

The 22L arrivals are descending to 2500 directly overtop rwy 19 at TEB. The MVA is 1800. We can't just assign headings and altitudes below the MVA, especially in weather that would make us want to use the GPS19 because it has lower mins than the ILS 19

Is there a way to add a stepdown fix after passing TEB on the 22L approach? We did that at CRP to run 31 approaches over top of NGW (shrinking their delegated airspace to 1.5 mile radius and 800 feet.) NGW doesn't have any IFR approaches, so it's a little different.

 

[NovemberEcho]

Depends....some of the approaches I work have the instruction on the published missed to fly a heading and then expect radar vectors. That's tough to do when you're NORDO.


Is there a way to add a stepdown fix after passing TEB on the 22L approach? We did that at CRP to run 31 approaches over top of NGW (shrinking their delegated airspace to 1.5 mile radius and 800 feet.) NGW doesn't have any IFR approaches, so it's a little different.

The 2500 crossing IS the stepdown fix to keep them clear of TEB 24 departures climbing to 1500' on the SID. 3 miles south of TEB they go down to 2000' and 6 miles after that they're on the ground at EWR

 

[greg1016]

Depends....some of the approaches I work have the instruction on the published missed to fly a heading and then expect radar vectors. That's tough to do when you're NORDO.

Yep and it is not safe, when our VOR is out they publish a NOTAM for /A aircraft to fly runway heading and maintain 3000. If it ever goes like that long term I will ATSAP it every day we are IFR until they fix it.

 

[Stinger]

Yep and it is not safe, when our VOR is out they publish a NOTAM for /A aircraft to fly runway heading and maintain 3000. If it ever goes like that long term I will ATSAP it every day we are IFR until they fix it.

We've got 7 of them at one airport that include radar vectors on the published missed.
Plus the PAR/ASR approaches where if they go lost comms and can't maintain VFR, they proceed direct to an IAF to conduct an instrument approach of the pilot's choice.

 

[greg1016]

We've got 7 of them at one airport that include radar vectors on the published missed.
Plus the PAR/ASR approaches where if they go lost comms and can't maintain VFR, they proceed direct to an IAF to conduct an instrument approach of the pilot's choice.

Ask a civilian pilot what they would do if the publish missed included radar vectors.

 

[Stinger]

Ask a civilian pilot what they would do if the publish missed included radar vectors.

If I was to guess, pilot would just ask for an alternate missed if he was worried about it.

 

[Roger Roger]

Ask a civilian pilot what they would do if the publish missed included radar vectors.

Roll inverted and pull.

 

[Roger Roger]

Ask a civilian pilot what they would do if the publish missed included radar vectors.