Midwest’s remaining 717s could be grounded
- Thread starter DPApilot
- Start date
Merit, down to at least 10, mmm'kay?
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
One word: ego. Tim Hoeksema, Midwest CEO, refused to allow "his" airline to be gobbled up by Forklift Joe and AirTran. He didn't care about employees, shareholders, or the community. His ego was all that mattered. I keep trying to tell you this, but you don't want to listen: ego is all that matters to air line management. You want to talk about smart business practices, but that just doesn't apply in this industry. Ego is king.
HeyEng
Well-Known Member
I think Merit makes a good point. Has ALPA been able to curb the craziness that has been going on in the last 15 years or even earlier? I don't see that evidence and I don't think it's going to get any better.
I know I am not a line guy, but oh...forget it.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Yes, without a doubt. Have they been able to completely stop it? Of course not. Have they been able to reduce it? Absolutely. Ask the Mesaba pilots how much help ALPA provided. Under management's original plan, their FOs would have made $12,000 per year. This was the actual proposal that Paul Foley made to the bankruptcy judge. Ask the Delta pilots that managed to salvage all of their work rules in bankruptcy and are now making significant headway in regaining their payrates. Ask the Pinnacle pilots who were able to prevent multiple concessionary attempts by management. I could go on and on with this crap. The problem is that you only recognize the failures, and you don't pay attention to the victories.
HeyEng
Well-Known Member
That is not true...that is why I asked. I only have the experience of family members that had dealings with ALPA and some of the stories from airline guys that I fly with that are in the reserves. I do appreciate (as I am sure others as well) the examples of GOOD things that ALPA has done as well as some of the failures.
HeyEng
Well-Known Member
SoCalAprch
Well-Known Member
If they realize that all their planes are going to be parked and all their flying outsourced then why even show up? Every pilot should put in their two weeks today!
Also I would not be the least bit surprised if NWA/Delta have a big hand in this and we start hearing things like Compass and Republic in the same sentence here pretty soon.
Just saying...
anic:MusketeerMan
Well-Known Member
All those damn RAH pilots...bunch of dirty, rotten scabs. Grrrr.....:crazy:
The nerve of them to fly routes that management is making them fly! Why don't they just quit their jobs!
The nerve of them to fly routes that management is making them fly! Why don't they just quit their jobs!
Seggy
Well-Known Member
Merit, the question I asked is what did YOU do to help ALPA protect job security? Did you volunteer for any ALPA committees? Did you volunteer on your days off for the Skywest or Colgan Organizing Drives?
ALPA is only as strong as the work the members put into it.
mkeflyer
New Member
The talk around MKE from various employee groups has been that Boeing said told Timmy to screw off and is ending the 9 leases in April. I would not be suprised if this is the actual case, Timmy wanting Boeing to take a deep paycut too. I would love to see AirTran fly some of these 717s in a hybrid livery in and out of MKE daily just to spite YX.
Nick
Well-Known Member
CASM
Unfortunately the fact that plans exist to even try this nearly marks the end of Midwest Airlines.
The cost of flying these outsourced jets may be lower but the seat mile cost is higher and the operation would be very similar to other similar schemes that failed in the past:
Independence Air
ExpressJet (branded)
et cetera
An airline comprised entirely of 50 and 70 seat jets operating out of one hub and another small focus city to domestic cities only and no cargo-carrying capacity is simply not going to work.
Unfortunately the fact that plans exist to even try this nearly marks the end of Midwest Airlines.
The cost of flying these outsourced jets may be lower but the seat mile cost is higher and the operation would be very similar to other similar schemes that failed in the past:
Independence Air
ExpressJet (branded)
et cetera
An airline comprised entirely of 50 and 70 seat jets operating out of one hub and another small focus city to domestic cities only and no cargo-carrying capacity is simply not going to work.
inside0ut
Well-Known Member
pilot602
If specified, this will replace the title that
Let me preface this with I am 100% pro-union. I voted to unionize my carrier (we lost). My father was ALPA and I support ALPA. But ALPA is only as powerful as it's rank and file.
...
No offense, nah ya know what if I offend I don't really care, but what has any of the ALPA groups done lately to help themselves?
I'm tired of sitting in the jumpseat or reading on forums about how the "regionals" or "group x" has "undercut, screwed, etc." the ALPA groups when they themselves are the ones who have sat idly by or worse voted in their own demise.
Many of the mainline carriers were offered the opportunity to fly the RJS. THEY declined. Many of the current pay cuts were voted on and accepted BY the rank and file of ALPA. When the pensions were illegally taken from the various pilot groups the only reaction was to not wear uniform required hats or wear wristbands or put stickers on flightbags. WTF!?
My father flew before this current generation. He retired in 1987. He walked a picket line, mor than once. He struck as did many of the large mainline carriers at the time so they (and by extension YOU and I) would have what they had or better. They made hard choices and acted on them.
No one is saying striking is easy. Because it certainly is not. But it's the only choice. And YOU have chosen to sit on your butt and do nothing while mangement team after management team cycles through the top office making themselves rich and screwing everyone below them.
You think I (we) would rather fly an RJ at a regional over a mainline? What world do you live in? Hell even if the mainlines had set up "B scales' we'd all be better off because we'd be on fewer seniority lists. As it is now we're one the equivalent of C or in some cases D scales.
However, until I see one of the mainlines grow some balls and do something, anything to help themselves I really don't want to hear your incessant, infantile bitching about how everyone else is screwing you. You screwed yourself.
A lot of folks at the mainlines got thiers and then promptly turned around pulled up the ladder leaving the rest of us to fend for ourselves. It's easy to sit in a cockpt or on a forum and wax poetic about how great and powerful you are and how many wrongs have been done to you and quite another to get out of that cockpit and off that forum and do something, anything to help YOURSELF.
MusketeerMan
Well-Known Member
Hmmm...
Alaska: ALPA
Southwest: SWAPA
Alaska 737 Capt. rate: $148 (10 year)
Southwest 737 Capt. rate: $194 (10 year)
Draw your own conclusions. Way to undercut other 73 drivers.
The information above has about as much relevance to this post as it does attacking RAH pilots for their managements decisions.
Velocipede
New Member
Conclusions:
1. SWA isn't furloughing any pilots or returninig airplanes.
2. Alaska didn't contract to fly the routes that SWA isn't reducing.
Ipso facto, your post is completely irrelevant.
1. SWA isn't furloughing any pilots or returninig airplanes.
2. Alaska didn't contract to fly the routes that SWA isn't reducing.
Ipso facto, your post is completely irrelevant.
WalterSobchak
Well-Known Member
Considering Alaska Airlines was in business about 30 years before Southwest I would say good for SW for raising the bar. Something that can be used in their next contract negotiations for Alaska.
