Microsoft Flight Sim sign off

[Cessnaflyer]

Sorry had student come in yesterday then I was off to the movies with the other half so I wasn't able to add any more.

I have been making the point that ACs CAN be regulatory in nature. As I had said in one of the posts before and as stated in the AIM, "Unless incorporated into a regulation by reference, the contents of an AC are not binding on the public.", which means that an AC is regulatory if it is referenced. Just trying to say that a dogmatic statement about an AC not being regulatory is not correct. Especially when there are a lot of impressionable students out there reading through this site. Primacy reigns supreme.

...regulatory...just wanted to say it one more time...and, I'm done...:bandit:

Doesn't that mean they can't be applied to a violation?

The reason I am so annoyed with people citing AC's is because all the CFI's that have it stuck in their head that the traffic pattern is in the FARs. I haven't seen any FAR regulation that I can only enter on the 45. Hell some airports if I enter in on the 45 then I would need to be about 1000' below terra firma to make that work.

I do like the AC's because much like the AIM they are a very good resource for pilots to get the plain english version and can apply them to real world situations that work with what is suggested.

Dosen't get much more plain english than that. A PCATD *is not* an FTD.

O.K. Go ahead and get "current" with a PCATD, and then submit you logbook to the FAA after a ramp check, tell them that you are infact current. Then tell them where you got current, and with which FTD you did it with.

You: "Yeah, I used the FTD at XYZ's FBO to get current."

FAA" "But that FBO only has a PCATD. You are not current, and just flew in IMC. You can hand over your certificates before you leave sir. We are going to keep them for 90 days."

P.S. Why is the name "Cessnaflyer" and the avatar is a Musketeer? Isn't that sacralidge?

So then why is the ASA PCATD approved by the FAA as a FTD? If the operator of the PCATD has it approved by the FAA then it can be used as an FTD it's as simple as that. What boggles my mind is that when people see things printed that it is the final word. Many of the FARs say "or as approved by the administrator."

Also there was one company I saw that actually got an approval by the FAA for an cockpit FTD that used MS flight sim for the outside visuals and flight dynamics. I wish I could find a link now but a quick google search was fruitless.

On the PS. Yeah the aircraft in the picture is from the college I used to teach at. I love the Beech Sports so much more then Cessna's. It's almost like flying in a plush Bentley

 

[Cessnaflyer]

On a related thread...do any of the other CFIIs hate Frasca's products? Or are other brands of FTD just as sucky?

Yeah I used to teach with two 141s and one 142 and they were always dubbed as being put into the psycho sims.

 

[mshunter]

So then why is the ASA PCATD approved by the FAA as a FTD? If the operator of the PCATD has it approved by the FAA then it can be used as an FTD it's as simple as that. What boggles my mind is that when people see things printed that it is the final word. Many of the FARs say "or as approved by the administrator."

Here is the defination of a FTD from the FAA (horses mouth so to speak).

"Flight training device (FTD) means a replica of aircraft instruments, equipment, panels, and controls in an open flight deck area (frasca 141-142)or an enclosed aircraft cockpit replica(Full Motion LevelD). It includes the equipment and computer programs necessary to represent aircraft (or set of aircraft) operations in ground and flight conditions having the full range of capabilities of the systems installed in the device as described in part 60 of this chapter and the qualification performance standard (QPS) for a specific FTD qualification level."

Here is the link to ASA's web site, which sells ther stuff as PCATD
www.asa2fly.com/On-Top-ELITE-Lighted-Basic-ATD--P912_product1.aspx

Here is what the acronym stands for
FTD = Flight Simulation Training Device
PCATD = Personal Computer Advanced Training Device <-- Notice the word simulation missing.

Again, it's not a flight deck, or even a representation of one. It's a stinkin computer screen, with a box placed next to it for radios. And I would like to know where the FAA approved a PCATD as an FTD. Do you not see that they are two completely different animals? They are not the same.

It will take you a while to read through it, but here are the links.

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/tex...de=14:2.0.1.1.1&idno=14#14:2.0.1.1.1.0.1.25.5
http://www.faa.gov/safety/programs_initiatives/aircraft_aviation/nsp/sqms/

Make sure you also read the word document that is attached to the second link. Make sure you look at (in the word doc) e.3.14.c. The FTD's flight deck must represent the specfic type; or aircraft make, model, and series aircraft as appropriate. Now, if you can explain to me how staring at a computer screen simulates a cockpit enviroment, I'll buy you a beer or twelve next time you find yourself in the Southern CA area.

Why do I know all of this? Because I played a huge role in getting one of the schools I work at both a PCATD, and an FTD approved.

 

[Cessnaflyer]

Then why is there an FAA approval letter for it?

http://www.asa2fly.com/files/docs/BATD_Approval_Web.pdf

 

[mshunter]

Then why is there an FAA approval letter for it?

http://www.asa2fly.com/files/docs/BATD_Approval_Web.pdf

Thats an ATD bud, not an FTD. I've been trying to explain this to your for a number of posts now. An ATD is not an FTD. Thats why you can use an FTD for more hours towards a certificate, than you can for an ATD (PCATD).

As for the 61.57 part, this one is news to me. And like I said earlier, I think I need to buy you some beers now.

 

[Cessnaflyer]

Thats an ATD bud, not an FTD. I've been trying to explain this to your for a number of posts now. An ATD is not an FTD. Thats why you can use an FTD for more hours towards a certificate, than you can for an ATD (PCATD).

As for the 61.57 part, this one is news to me. And like I said earlier, I think I need to buy you some beers now.

One of these from my home town

Yeah I've dealt with ASA and the FAA on this before and I am trying to get my flight school to buy one because it would be nice to shoot the last few approaches for currency.

 

[mshunter]

One of these from my home town

Yeah I've dealt with ASA and the FAA on this before and I am trying to get my flight school to buy one because it would be nice to shoot the last few approaches for currency.

And he even posts what kind he wants!:laff: I'll keep my eye out for it. And if you are down near KVNY, let me know.

 

[Cessnaflyer]

And he even posts what kind he wants!:laff: I'll keep my eye out for it. And if you are down near KVNY, let me know.

Haha they usually don't get many sales outside the Pacific Northwest. I would love to go to KVNY but it is way to expensive for a CFI to get down there, and I even have flight benefits :laff:

 

[Michael95U]

Thats an ATD bud, not an FTD. I've been trying to explain this to your for a number of posts now. An ATD is not an FTD. Thats why you can use an FTD for more hours towards a certificate, than you can for an ATD (PCATD).

As for the 61.57 part, this one is news to me. And like I said earlier, I think I need to buy you some beers now.

But an AATD gives you the same type of credit as an FTD Level 3.....

I could not resist adding fuel to the fire. :bandit:

 

[Zondaracer]

Also there was one company I saw that actually got an approval by the FAA for an cockpit FTD that used MS flight sim for the outside visuals and flight dynamics. I wish I could find a link now but a quick google search was fruitless.

Sonoran Wings in Tucson, AZ uses a Mechtronix FTD that uses MSFS