Microsoft Flight Sim sign off

[Orange Anchor]

I've had my CFI/II for decades but only recently have gone back and done some instructing outside the -121 environment.

A friend wants me to work with him on his instruments and has the Microsoft Flight Sim program. Does that qualify for simulated instruments and what is the sign-off?

Thanks ahead of time.

 

[surreal1221]

No.

 

[Xcaliber]

No.

And here's why:

1.1:

Full flight simulator (FFS) means a replica of a specific type; or make, model, and series aircraft cockpit. It includes the assemblage of equipment and computer programs necessary to represent aircraft operations in ground and flight conditions, a visual system providing an out-of-the-cockpit view, a system that provides cues at least equivalent to those of a three-degree-of-freedom motion system, and has the full range of capabilities of the systems installed in the device as described in part 60 of this chapter and the qualification performance standards (QPS) for a specific FFS qualification level.

Flight training device (FTD) means a replica of aircraft instruments, equipment, panels, and controls in an open flight deck area or an enclosed aircraft cockpit replica. It includes the equipment and computer programs necessary to represent aircraft (or set of aircraft) operations in ground and flight conditions having the full range of capabilities of the systems installed in the device as described in part 60 of this chapter and the qualification performance standard (QPS) for a specific FTD qualification level.

It's great to use as a learning tool, though, and it makes it easy (and free) for your friend to practice at home. If I'm not mistaken, FS2004 and FSX both have "instructor" stations, meaning you can host an online game and be able to fail stuff and see where they're at and whatnot. I don't think it shows you their screen, though, so it might work better if you had two computers near each other, one for him to fly on and one for you to do all the instructor stuff with.

 

[Old Pete]

Microsoft Flight Simulator is not an approved personal computer-based aviation training devices (PCATD), if it were, you could use it for up to 10 hrs for the instrument rating, but not for recency of expeperience requirements.

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_G...0862569ba0052b8f6/$FILE/ATTX7OJX/AC61-126.pdf

PCATD. A device which:
(1) Meets or exceeds the criteria shown in Appendix 1.
(2) Functionally provides a training platform for at least the procedural aspects of flight relating to
an instrument training curriculum.
(3) Has been qualified by the FAA.

 

[Red-Baron]

It looks like the first question has already been answered, but at the following link you'll find some FAA approved PCATDs:

http://www.asa2fly.com/Simulators-C15_category.aspx


Below a few useful links regarding an IPC:

http://www.faasafety.gov/gslac/ALC/course_catalog.aspx (look for instrument proficiency check review guide)

http://www.faa.gov/pilots/training/media/IPC_Guidance.pdf

http://rgl.faa.gov/REGULATORY_AND_GUIDANCE_LIBRARY%5CRGFAR.NSF/0/253B8561B407368686256DAC004DA961?OpenDocument


And here's the required endorsement:

AC 61-65D

Completion of an instrument proficiency check: § 61.57(d)

I certify that (First name, MI, Last name), (pilot certificate),
(certificate number), has satisfactorily completed

the instrument proficiency check of § 61.57(d) in a (list make and model of
aircraft) on (date).

S/S [date] Joe Blow 123456789CFI Exp. XX-XX-XX

NOTE: No logbook entry reflecting unsatisfactory performance on an
instrument proficiency check is required.

 

[Ian_J]

I say yes, as long as the sign-off is one of the ones Rod Machado gives in the game.

You can even print them out!

 

[91-3A]

I say yes, as long as the sign-off is one of the ones Rod Machado gives in the game.

You can even print them out!

Maybe I just haven't seen the ones Rod Machado gives in the game...*beginning nervous laughter here*:drool::bandit:

 

[fly8slep]

yea you can use ms flight sim plenty of places do use it but I think they have to be OKed by the faa and I think they have to have actual controls, no keyboard

 

[surreal1221]

yea you can use ms flight sim plenty of places do use it but I think they have to be OKed by the faa and I think they have to have actual controls, no keyboard

:banghead:

You're with GoJets too right?

Sharp talent they're getting these days.

 

[91-3A]

yea you can use ms flight sim plenty of places do use it but I think they have to be OKed by the faa and I think they have to have actual controls, no keyboard

Uhhhhhh...oh boy...well, good luck with that...anic::bandit:

 

[Ian_J]

Uhh... before this gets crazy I'd like the record to reflect I was just joking. Rod Machado's Instrument Rating printed off flight sim is not recognized by the FAA.

 

[jhugz]

but not for recency of expeperience requirements.

proof?

 

[CN94559]

it might not be "official" time, but coming from personal experience it does help to fly on FSX. I learned so much from flying on there. I didnt take those lessons, I couldn't stand them to be honest. I became a part of a group (virtual airline) of people who are current pilots, ex pilots, current ATCers, and Ex ATCers, and from talking with them I learned how to read approach charts, and fly full instrument flights. I also learned how to control.

My whole point is, even though you can't count it as "official" time, it really really helped me.

 

[surreal1221]

I'm a child of the flight sim age. . .

The various elements of trying to make the simulation as real as possible allowed me a great deal of confidence when I first began flying 9 years ago.

Sure, it'll help set the foundation, but MSFS is not approved for an IPC in any fashion.

 

[mshunter]

proof?

Did you even read the AC?


b. Reducing Flight Hours Through Ground Training.

This AC provides for some training time on PCATD's meeting acceptable FAA standards to be used to reduce the total flight hour that otherwise would have to be accomplished in an aircraft or a flight training device to meet the requirement for an instrument rating under part 61 or part 141. PCATD's determined to meet the criteria established by this AC may be used in lieu of, and for not more than, 10 hours of time that ordinarily may be acquired in a flight simulator or flight training device authorized for use under part 61 or part 141. However, the FAA has not authorized the use of PCATD's for conducting practical tests nor for accomplishing recency of experience requirements.​

 

[screennamie]

:banghead:

You're with GoJets too right?

Sharp talent they're getting these days.

LOL that was harsh. Funny but harsh!

 

[Cessnaflyer]

However, the FAA has not authorized the use of PCATD's for conducting practical tests nor for accomplishing recency of experience requirements.​

An AC is not regulatory.


§ 61.57 Recent flight experience: Pilot in command.

(c) Instrument experience. Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command under IFR or in weather conditions less than the minimums prescribed for VFR, unless within the preceding 6 calendar months, that person has:
(1) For the purpose of obtaining instrument experience in an aircraft (other than a glider), performed and logged under actual or simulated instrument conditions, either in flight in the appropriate category of aircraft for the instrument privileges sought or in a flight simulator or flight training device that is representative of the aircraft category for the instrument privileges sought—

§ 61.65 Instrument rating requirements.

(5) Receive and log training on the areas of operation of paragraph (c) of this section from an authorized instructor in an aircraft, flight simulator, or flight training device that represents an airplane, helicopter, or powered-lift appropriate to the instrument rating sought;

§ 61.1 Applicability and definitions.

(7) Flight training device means a device that—
(i) Is a full-size replica of the instruments, equipment, panels, and controls of an aircraft, or set of aircraft, in an open flight deck area or in an enclosed cockpit, including the hardware and software for the systems installed, that is necessary to simulate the aircraft in ground and flight operations;
(ii) Need not have a force (motion) cueing or visual system; and
(iii) Has been evaluated, qualified, and approved by the Administrator.

 

[91-3A]

I've had my CFI/II for decades but only recently have gone back and done some instructing outside the -121 environment.

A friend wants me to work with him on his instruments and has the Microsoft Flight Sim program. Does that qualify for simulated instruments and what is the sign-off?

Thanks ahead of time.

Hey, to be really honest, MS F/S is a great program to PRACTICE on. It is not legal for Sim time. If your friend wants help getting back to it and you want to sharpen your skills to take a checkride to get back into the flow of it, by any and all means...work your tail off with it. The approaches are great and you can get a lot out of it. However, as many here have said and some have backed up with regs, you cannot use it for actual real-world training. When you are current again, you might could find some local flight school with a Frasca 141 that would let your friend rent and you could instruct him in. There are even some smaller desktop units that don't have a monitor that are legal, but you would have to research which ones they are and whether they are FAA-approved. Good luck!:bandit:

 

[Orange Anchor]

Hey, to be really honest, MS F/S is a great program to PRACTICE on. It is not legal for Sim time.

I may have phrased the question poorly but you answered it. He is working on getting his instrument ticket. He is a VFR private pilot and has the program, monitor, rudder pedals, throttle, engine sounds and yoke with trim. And of course, approaches galore.

He asked if the time 'flying' the MS FS counted. I replied I didn't think it did but wanted to ask around. Good for practice but is not recognized for logging time.

Thanks.

 

[mshunter]

An AC is not regulatory.


§ 61.57 Recent flight experience: Pilot in command.

(c) Instrument experience. Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command under IFR or in weather conditions less than the minimums prescribed for VFR, unless within the preceding 6 calendar months, that person has:
(1) For the purpose of obtaining instrument experience in an aircraft (other than a glider), performed and logged under actual or simulated instrument conditions, either in flight in the appropriate category of aircraft for the instrument privileges sought or in a flight simulator or flight training device that is representative of the aircraft category for the instrument privileges sought—

§ 61.65 Instrument rating requirements.

(5) Receive and log training on the areas of operation of paragraph (c) of this section from an authorized instructor in an aircraft, flight simulator, or flight training device that represents an airplane, helicopter, or powered-lift appropriate to the instrument rating sought;

§ 61.1 Applicability and definitions.

(7) Flight training device means a device that—
(i) Is a full-size replica of the instruments, equipment, panels, and controls of an aircraft, or set of aircraft, in an open flight deck area or in an enclosed cockpit, including the hardware and software for the systems installed, that is necessary to simulate the aircraft in ground and flight operations;
(ii) Need not have a force (motion) cueing or visual system; and
(iii) Has been evaluated, qualified, and approved by the Administrator.

You are right, to an extent. An FTD, and a PCATD are two different animals. PCATD's do not qualify for recent experince requirements. They are not a ---(7)(i)"full-size replica of the instruments, equipment, panels, and controls of an aircraft, or set of aircraft, in an open flight deck area or in an enclosed cockpit, including the hardware and software for the systems installed, that is necessary to simulate the aircraft in ground and flight operations"---

If they were, you would be able to use a PCATD an equal amount of time requirement as an FTD. Sitting in an office chair infront of a computer screen doesn't count. It's a representation of an office, not a flight deck. I had a recent conversation with a local FSDO guy (the one who would bust you if you did something stupid) about this.