Methods for charging students?

Vrefplusten

Well-Known Member
HI Everyone,

Just trying to get a feel how most of you other independent contractor types are charging your students? I think I'm being pretty fair to my students, but you can never make all your students happy....So anyways, just trying to get a feel for what others are doing so as to possibly re-eval my methods...

Do you charge a flat block rate from the time you arrive at the field to the time you leave? Do you charge the same for flight and ground? Do you have some sort of a formula for calculating out what they owe you?

Believe me, I'm not out to milk people for all they've got, but at the same time you are trying to make a living...I'm certain that many of you can relate...

Thanks,
Ref
 
I'll repeat what I've said before on this subject.

None of the various methods are inherently unfair. What makes a billing method unfair is when either the student or the CFI feels he or she is not getting value in return.

Bill for Hobbs only? Fine, but I sure hope your rate reflects the time you spend preparing for a lesson and doing pre and post-flight briefings.

Bill handshake to handshake? You probably should have a stopwatch handy.

Bill flat rate for a schedule block of time? Ok also, but that rate should reflect that sometimes you will spend extra time you won't charge for and sometimes you'll get away early.
 
Half Day/Day rates. Someone recommended that a while ago and I've been doing it ever since. I like it.

-mini
 
I bill for my time

I make a habit of noting the time when we start, and the time when we end. At the end of every session I tell the student how much time that was.

Seems to work out OK
 
Funny that you bring this up, because I just started something new today. I have a new student pilot and I told him that if he schedules me for two hours and I am available to him for those two hours, he will be billed for two hours. I told him that most the CFIs at the school will do the local standard "stop watch" situation. He still wants to fly with me; bonus.

I think you can do what ever you want, as long as it is made clear to the student in the beginning on how billing is to happen. The student can always find somebody else if he doesn't like your style.

My current students only get billed when we are sat down doing pre/post brief and when the engine is running. Every new student is on the "block time", mainly because I have been doing this for almost two years and I am tired of a full two hours of my day being taken up for 1.4 pay.
Plus our ground rate is really reasonable....extremely reasonable.
 
I think Mark kind of nailed it. There is no right or wrong way, as long as you give your students the instruction they deserve. You want to charge for hobbs... that's fine, but don't forget that there is more to flying than just the hobbs time. I usually spend far more time preparing for ground than I do for the flying portion, so I charge the same for both.
I usually charge either by the half day, daily, or hourly. If it is hourly I usually err on the side of the student to some extent. If, however, the student is to the point that they should be able to get weather, preflight, figure the airplane airworthiness and performance... yet I stand around waiting for this to get done, then I charge them for my time.
I usually prefer 1/2 day or daily rate. That way the pilot knows up front how long they have paid for me and they can use that time as they wish.
 
I think Mark kind of nailed it. There is no right or wrong way, as long as you give your students the instruction they deserve. You want to charge for hobbs... that's fine, but don't forget that there is more to flying than just the hobbs time. I usually spend far more time preparing for ground than I do for the flying portion, so I charge the same for both.
I usually charge either by the half day, daily, or hourly. If it is hourly I usually err on the side of the student to some extent. If, however, the student is to the point that they should be able to get weather, preflight, figure the airplane airworthiness and performance... yet I stand around waiting for this to get done, then I charge them for my time.
I usually prefer 1/2 day or daily rate. That way the pilot knows up front how long they have paid for me and they can use that time as they wish.

Agree with you and Mark. Question though.....since the last time I had instruction in an FBO plane was nearly 18 years ago. For FBOs that charge by Hobbs time:

1. Is the Hobbs wired to the battery, so it starts when the master comes on; or is it via oil pressure, so it runs when the engine runs?

and,

2. Do FBOs that charge by Hobbs time.....does the dual hourly rate, as calculated, include the charge for the CFIs pre/post flight ground time when a guy is receiving dual? Or is that billed separately? Ie- say a C-172 is $130 dual. Is the accepted practice that $130 dual also includes 1.0 (for example) of pre/post flight time the CFI is expected to give, or is the ground time billed separately?

Again....it's just been a while.
 
I charge for the block time. I use to charge for hobbs only but it does not make any sense. If you go get a massage, you pay for the 60 minutes, even though it is approx. a 50-55 min session. I took that to my students, total time from start to finish and I have had no complaints.
 
I bill by Hobbs for flight and watch for ground. I set my flying rate a little higher since I'm the only tailwheel instructor in this area (with an aircraft for training).

A school I used to instruct at automatically added .5 hr for ground to each flight.
 
Agree with you and Mark. Question though.....since the last time I had instruction in an FBO plane was nearly 18 years ago. For FBOs that charge by Hobbs time:

1. Is the Hobbs wired to the battery, so it starts when the master comes on; or is it via oil pressure, so it runs when the engine runs?

and,

2. Do FBOs that charge by Hobbs time.....does the dual hourly rate, as calculated, include the charge for the CFIs pre/post flight ground time when a guy is receiving dual? Or is that billed separately? Ie- say a C-172 is $130 dual. Is the accepted practice that $130 dual also includes 1.0 (for example) of pre/post flight time the CFI is expected to give, or is the ground time billed separately?

Again....it's just been a while.


1. Depends on the airplane. Even same make and model have different setups.

2. We charge the same rate for flight/ground instruction. Any ground time is billed separately. I include a pre/post brief, as it is usually only 5-10 minutes for full time students. If someone requires more than that, I bill them. My previous flight school would automatically bill .3 ground to every dual flight to cover pre/post flight.
 
None of the various methods are inherently unfair. What makes a billing method unfair is when either the student or the CFI feels he or she is not getting value in return.

Bill for Hobbs only? Fine, but I sure hope your rate reflects the time you spend preparing for a lesson and doing pre and post-flight briefings.

Bill handshake to handshake? You probably should have a stopwatch handy.

Bill flat rate for a schedule block of time? Ok also, but that rate should reflect that sometimes you will spend extra time you won't charge for and sometimes you'll get away early.

:yeahthat:

It's also important to be very up front and clear about how you charge from the start. I've found most customers don't really care how they get charged, they just want to understand the system and not have any surprises.

I bill for any time I spend actually meeting with a customer. That usually means about 1.7 or 1.8 for a two hour time slot. There's always a few minutes spent with one of us taking a bathroom break, coming 5 minutes late or leaving 5 minutes early, dispatching the plane from the computer, etc. If there's any doubt about how long I spent with somebody, I err on the side of the customer simply because I don't want to ever be accused of over charging.

For any sort of unusually long reservation, we cap the instruction fee at $294/day. That allows customers to take us on longer trips, use their training for business trips, etc. without worrying about a massive instruction bill at the end of a 12 hour day.

Oh, and one other quick note here...people generally respond well to you charging *higher* rates. They have more respect for you, show up on time more often, believe you are a higher quality instructor, etc. I never believed this until I saw it for myself. At my school we charge $54/hour which, to my knowledge, is the highest price in the area, yet we aren't hurting for students, and....*gasp*...we're actually making a living. That's a rare thing in aviation nowadays ;)
 
I've used multiple methods, depending on the student.

For one I needed to bill for the scheduled time, since he was always 1/2 late. I could have been flying with someone else.

For another student I billed time we worked together (2 hour block - 10 minutes when student preflighted - 15 minutes drinking coffee, etc) but billed for both pre and post flight discussions, not just hobbs alone.

But in most all cases I bill for the time booked less any reasonable time not spent directly with the student.
 
Funny that you bring this up, because I just started something new today. I have a new student pilot and I told him that if he schedules me for two hours and I am available to him for those two hours, he will be billed for two hours. I told him that most the CFIs at the school will do the local standard "stop watch" situation. He still wants to fly with me; bonus.

I think you can do what ever you want, as long as it is made clear to the student in the beginning on how billing is to happen. The student can always find somebody else if he doesn't like your style.

My current students only get billed when we are sat down doing pre/post brief and when the engine is running. Every new student is on the "block time", mainly because I have been doing this for almost two years and I am tired of a full two hours of my day being taken up for 1.4 pay.
Plus our ground rate is really reasonable....extremely reasonable.

That is how I did it and I never had a problem with any students. Best thing was an 8 hour work day actually paid me 8 hours of pay.
 
Funny that you bring this up, because I just started something new today. I have a new student pilot and I told him that if he schedules me for two hours and I am available to him for those two hours, he will be billed for two hours.
I've been doing that - scheduling "normal" lessons in 2-hour blocks and charging on that basis for 10 years now.
 
None of the various methods are inherently unfair. What makes a billing method unfair is when either the student or the CFI feels he or she is not getting value in return.
:yeahthat:

The only thing I would add is that as long as you have some sort of structured syllabus and the student feels he/she is getting what they pay for you should be ok. It is the unstructured "hey umm we will do umm ya this and this for next time you should *looks through book* study this" type thing that, at least for me, makes me feel as though I am getting shafted.
 
I work at a 141 school some of these things shant apply...though most probaly do. Here we get paid a different rate for ground and flight. I'll charge the student per the hobbs. Simple enough. On top of that for any i schedule any preflight briefing. Could be an hour or fifteen minutes.

beyond that, there are a couple of things that we don't get paid for...mainly scheduling (yes we have to make our students schedule), suprivising preflights and Folders. These two things can take a while to get done. Because of that i do add .2 ground to all my flights everytime they fly. So for three flights a week that's just more than half an hour.

No doubt with the things listed above i spend at least 30 minutes away from the student to fly with him three times. Sort of look at it as an administration fee.
 
For the most part I use the hand shake to hand shake method. If you are late for the first handshake the clock starts without you. The bills typically end up a couple tenths less than the total time we are together, depends how much BSing took place.

I have only had one person ever comment about the size of a bill, you could tell the ground bugged him even though he was told it would be there. We talked about time I spend away from the airport preparing lessons as well as the cost of the raitings and hours I have. After that he has never made a similar comment.

On the comment above about a different rate for flight and ground time, I find that strange. I do not believe that your insights and teaching is less valuable on the gournd than it is in the air (assuming that that is they way the split works). In fact if good ground instruction is given it should reduce the amount of time that the student pays to have the engine running, maybe this is why the school values ground instruction less.
 
Funny that you bring this up, because I just started something new today. I have a new student pilot and I told him that if he schedules me for two hours and I am available to him for those two hours, he will be billed for two hours. I told him that most the CFIs at the school will do the local standard "stop watch" situation. He still wants to fly with me; bonus

No offense, but if an instructor said this to me I would find a different instructor. What happens when the plane is back late and we are waiting around? If a student needs 10 minutes to preflight then it is only fair the plane is back 10 minutes early if the charges for CFI start as soon as the block time does (so you don't get charged instruction for doing your preflight) but the previous renter is only obliged to bring it back on time. After a while students don't require as much or any pre/post flight briefings. Can your students schedule the aircraft from 12-2 and you from 12.15 to 1.45? I have no problem paying for all the instruction received (flight, pre/post and ground), but wouldn't go along with this.

BTW - If/when I can start charging as opposed to being charged maybe I'll have a change of heart!!
 
No offense,

None taken at all.

I feel like I bring something extra to the table as an instructor. The guy in the example has flown with other instructors and would rather fly with me, even if it will cost a little more.
I don't want to sound too full of myself but I think I'm worth it and I think he does too.
 
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