Mesa Open House

OK - well when you guys are done with the "Mesa sucks" thing, if anyone has a constructive answer to my question, I'd appreciate it.

And by the way, if I do decide to take one for team and turn down a job "for the good of the industry", perhaps one of you idealists who is still employed, can clean out a bedroom in your house for me... since- I have no spouse or parents to support me and you know - your quality of life will be so improved by me myself remaining unemployed while we all hold our breaths for every airline to benevolently improve your QOL given the same crap economy.

I have reserved comment on this because I didn't want to get into a war here - and I still don't but this BS just frosts me. No doubt a lot of you guys have more experience as pilots than me and I appreciate that but I'm 45 and have been in 3 major careers the business world spanning 30 years. My last business was destroyed when it became cheaper to buy a new crappy imported chinese computer at walmart than I could reasonably charge to build or fix a good one in my shop. Ya know what - that's life.

You can continue with this misplaced anger but you can take this to the bank -
Your enemy is not the "Starry Eyed Kids" with a fresh CMEL willing to work for less. Nor is it a 600tt guy who committed to a (perhaps ill-advised)career change and is just trying to find a job anywhere he can. Nor is it even the airlines who are just trying every trick in the book to make a profit for once. - NO - The watermark for this economy, is set entirely by the consumer(and that includes you and me), scouring the internet for the cheapest (insert product here) he/she can possibly find, whether it be airline tickets or computers or anything else. The only difference this year is that the fuel prices which are a near-monopoly and can't be purchased cheap on the web. Now more people are doing without airline tickets and computers and a lot of people are out of a job in both industries. I may be luckier than most because I likely have a job waiting for me in mid-october but when you have zero income that seems like an eternity away.

Seriously guys, I joined jetcareers because I thought it would be a good resource for a person who was trying to have a "Jet Career". I thought it was a place to bond as pilots and that there would be much wisdom from those who have been there for a while to help others get a job. And I thought this was the appropriate thread for it.
 
Sorry about the rant before but I am frustrated and it was building up over months of reading "airline X sucks" and "Pilot that work for airline Y are scabs" etc. I know that some are trying to be helpful.

Again the question - assuming I chose to attend one of these events, Would I be likely glossed over with only 670tt/11me considering the number of available RJ pilots floating around? Any current Mesa pilots have insight on just what the hiring situation is? IOW, what is competitive there now?
 
I'd say you have a pretty good chance with those hours. The other guys will be gone as soon as they get their few hours to hop onto the next job. You're going to be at Mesa for awhile, at least a year or so, before getting enough hours to move on. That should stand you above many other applicants.

The answer is no unless you apply.

Ya takes yer chances. . .
 
A few things to consider...

Ten years ago it was "paying your dues", but now in the age of lowered minimums its "bringing the industry down."

A lot of the guys screaming "Mesa Sucks" will be standing in front of you "bringing the industry down" at those open houses. I'd also be very wary of calling some of them my "bros and sis" because the true malcontents will have no qualms about crawfishing you so they can get the job.

If you want the job go for it, if you don't want the job maybe just go for the interview experience. Mindless complaining ruins any industry and the powers that be don't hire resumes, they hire people. If you had 5,000 hours and a chip on your shoulder you might lose the slot to a guy with less than 700 and a willingness to do the job.

Would I take the job? Not a chance. But then again, I've chosen specifically not to go the regional route.
 
I thought I would chime in and give my .02 cents worth. I/m currently at Mesa and have been here for two years. I'm based in PHX and am on the DASH 8. Yesterday was my last day in groundschool for upgrade. Hire date July 11th, 2006, first day of upgrade groundschool was July 9th. So just shy of two years for me to upgrade, however I could have taken a upgrade on the CRJ back in January. In all honesty it hasn't been bad for me. My QOL is great compared to others, I live in base. Last bid I did standup overnights and was home every day, I only worked thursday, friday and sunday nights. The pay, well............. it's a paycheck, i'll put it that way. When I applied to mesa everybody in the world was telling what a bad place it was, and mesa sucks and blah, blah, blah. I have friends at a lot of different regionals and they all say the same thing about where they work. Some like it, some don't. The only advice I could offer, is apply, go to the open house and interview. Never hurts to interview, it would be a great experience. If it's not a place you would want to work, then you don't have to accept the job. Good luck to ya:)
 
For the record. I've helped a Mesa buddy get on at UPS. I've known two other Mesa buddies go to Delta and America West. Mesa is what it is. Knock the company and JO to your hearts content but I don't see the line guys in the trenches any different than regional guys at Skywest or wherever.

I'm not a fan of JO and I'm not a fan of MAPD putting low time guys in the right seat. Outside of that, the Mesa pilot bashing at this site is highly misplaced.
 
Im going for the interview experience because when a company that I like starts hiring, I want to be ready. For the Mesa job fair, I'm guessing they dont fly you back to their base for a sim ride like eagle??
 
I got this email also...in some ways its almost ingenious by them. Let's have an open house to take in all the experienced furloughed pilots who want work to stay at least somewhat current.

The company is going to do whatever it has to do to stay afloat...as much as we would all like it, airlines are not out there to give us jobs to fly planes, they are out there to make money(or try). If they can cut corners and the employee's put up with it...good for them.

I am not saying go mesa, and im not saying screw mesa, but what i do know is i make more money flight instructing. Take it what its worth, I have heard more than enough people complain about Mesa, and I have heard of the people who enjoy flying period.

Figure out where your priorities are, and choose wisely. If you do try and interview, do it prior to the open houses and get in before the rush. Just my 10 cents, figured I wrote to much for 2 cents worth.
 
I'll be hitting up the open house in Chicago. I don't know about interviewing though because you have to pass the atp test they give. Working on finishing up my CFI right now. I'm just kind of playing things by ear I guess.

I have an ok job at the moment but it just pays the bills. I'd like to work at something I got all my training in. And if they're the only regional hiring right now then it's deffinetly worth a look at least.
 
greekpilot said:
Im going for the interview experience because when a company that I like starts hiring, I want to be ready. For the Mesa job fair, I'm guessing they dont fly you back to their base for a sim ride like eagle??
Click to expand...

There isn't any sim ride as part of the Mesa interview. Just the abbreviated ATP written test, and the one on one interview.
 
It's quite a dilemma... on the one hand, we all want to be flying and if you don't have a job and need one, it's hard to see how turning one down out of principle is going to help. On the other hand, we all know that there has been tremendous downward pressure on pilot wages, benefits, and QOL recently; and there are a lot of fellow pilots that, right or wrong, will judge you harshly for taking such a job. What's a poor pilot to do?

Well, I have to say I fall into the "don't undercut the industry" crowd. We all have to make our own decisions, and for me, regionals fall below my personal standards for how I want to be treated in a job. I wish more people felt the same. I have been smitten with flying since I was 6, and I still look up at the sky to see a passing airplane with the same excitement I had when I was a kid. But I've learned, in the relatively short time of my flying career, that flying for a living is work. Sure, it beats a "desk job," but there is a limit to what I'm willing to give up for the privilege of not having a "desk job."

I have drawn much insight from the pervasive bitterness I've observed in pilots who've spent time in the airlines; it has taught me that if I'm not going to be happy with the overall return a job will give me, I shouldn't take it. I have accepted the possibility that if there is no flying job available to me that meets my standards, then I will have to go elsewhere. If you're someone who feels differently and doesn't want to leave flying no matter what, think of what you're saying: "I want to fly so badly that in the end, I will accept anything to do so." Although I respect the dreams that are behind that conviction, it is clear to me that if that's how pilots overall as a group feel, we will never stop the downward spiral that has become of the pilot career.

If you do go to Mesa, I hope that things work out for you and that you end up happy with your choice. :)
 
flyinguitar said:
Well, I have to say I fall into the "don't undercut the industry" crowd. We all have to make our own decisions, and for me, regionals fall below my personal standards for how I want to be treated in a job.
Click to expand...

Just stand by your convictions. . .good luck!
 
flyinguitar said:
It's quite a dilemma... on the one hand, we all want to be flying and if you don't have a job and need one, it's hard to see how turning one down out of principle is going to help. On the other hand, we all know that there has been tremendous downward pressure on pilot wages, benefits, and QOL recently; and there are a lot of fellow pilots that, right or wrong, will judge you harshly for taking such a job. What's a poor pilot to do?
Click to expand...

I'm not picking on you, flyinguitar - I liked your post and I think you do a good job illustrating the dilemma faced by pilots trying to get into a career they want. Just using your post for reference -

No one wants to "cut down the industry". Those who "judge a pilot harshly" for going to work for Mesa (or whatever demonized airline you choose), demonstrate something of a sense of entitlement and lack of understanding of the free market in which we find ourselves. It is the equivalent of blaming the Mexican individual for crossing the US border to find a job instead of addressing the underlying policies that create the situation where they feel forced to do so.

The arguments are illogical -
It has already been proven that trying to intimidate, shame or scare pilots into not working for (airline x) does not work. Otherwise Mesa and GoJets would be gone. The reality is, "those who judge harshly" are very vocal but not all that great in numbers. Based on the PMs I've gotten on the subject, they have succeeded in intimidating many into not talking about it, but few into martyrdom.

Let's say it did work - and some sort a a false pilot shortage were created, we've already seen what happens. The airlines do not raise wages, they lower minimums.

If an unemployed pilot OWES it to the employed pilot to remain unemployed for the sake of the employed pilot's QOL, why is it less of an argument that the employed pilot quit the job he constantly bitches about, to make room for a pilot who would be happy working under the same conditions. And let's talk about the conditions. In my life I have worked some hard dirty jobs, sometimes 70 hour weeks for far less pay that a first year Great Lakes FO and I never heard the kind of bitching about ones job that I hear from some pilots(sometimes even in person). Is it ridiculous that a highly trained and skilled pilot with x number of lives in their hands on a daily basis makes less money than the guy that cleans the restrooms at the Exxon's headquarters? Yes. Is that likely to change anytime soon? Nope.

When I hear someone talk about "bringing down the industry" - isn't it really all about you? Do you really care about "the industry" except insofar as the money/job it provides for you? Don't you think the airlines WANT to make money? They are corporations folks! By law, they are required to attempt to make a profit for their shareholders. The market currently dictates that they cannot make much if any profit. Don't you think your unions WANT to get you more money/better QOL. They can't. The industry is entirely at the mercy of the oil market and the consumer who will always try to pay the absolute least he possibly can for an airline ticket. If your friend wants to buy an airline ticket online at orbits, do you try to shame them into picking a higher price so as not to bring down the industry?

I wish it were different but it's not. The market is what it is, everyone is entitled to their opinion and I encourage discussion on the subject but I see no positive aspect of being condescending or intimidating to fellow pilots over it.
 
I just got my notice of furlough today as of Sept 1st. I will be looking for something that will keep me current and flying.. I never thought that i would want to work for Mesa but with CRJ200 SIC type , it looks like a match made in ... well, world..
 
pilotbry said:
ILet's say it did work - and some sort a a false pilot shortage were created, we've already seen what happens. The airlines do not raise wages, they lower minimums.
Click to expand...

That is a good point.

I also didn't mean to say all the regionals are below my standards. If the total package was to my liking (pay, benefits, schedule, likely bases, and current stability level) (which is impossible to know, really), I would consider it for sure. I was actually quite interested in Horizon and Republic a while back... not that y'all need to know the details of my career musings, but if I do end up an RJ FO someday I just know someone's gonna yell "Hypocrite!" ;)

My point was that I've met the requirements for some of the lower-minimum regionals for a while, and while I can't wait to move on from instructing, those gigs were clearly not worth it to me.

I guess what really makes the most sense is for pilots, wherever they are, to 1) be professional, and 2) do our absolute utmost to continue to demand the compensation and respect we think we deserve as professionals. You can do that at any level - heck, I've been trying hard to improve the lot of CFIs at my current job. With hard work, some help from the economy, and some luck, hopefully we can make things better.

Pilotbry, I'm sure you've heard this 1,000 times, but have you thought of getting your CFI? While you can probably tell that I don't have tremendous enthusiasm for instructing, overall I recommend that route 100%. It does wonders for you as a pilot, and once you get the hang of it, becomes a really good fall-back job that will allow you to remain in aviation.
 
flyinguitar said:
Pilotbry, I'm sure you've heard this 1,000 times, but have you thought of getting your CFI?.
Click to expand...

Yep 1000 times. Here's the scoop. I got my commercial 3 years ago just for the heck of it, never thinking I'd accumulate enough hours to fly for a living. I was working as an avionics tech making WAY better than pilot money but when the hiring boom happened I started working on getting my multi thinking I may apply at the airlines at some point. Then I got laid off at the avionics shop so I frantically started applying at the regionals. I got 1 interview with Mesaba but didn't get the job. I was about broke when I ended up getting a job with an aerial mapping company which I loved but it's seasonal and I can't start back until mid October. Honestly, I think I would be more happy doing that than flying for a regional. The only drawback, it's a 172 and if you don't have 4 months of money saved up, the hiatus is a backbreaker.

So basically it was a timing thing. I really have never been excited about the thought of instructing but, hindsight being 20/20, I selfishly wish I had the CFI because I could be making some money now - fact is, I don't, and it is not practical to pursue it at this point. I don't have the money to do it now.

Also - I had an instructor(in fact a very respected ground school instructor here in Kansas City) who said to me after I graduated her commercial pilot class, "Do everyone a favor, if your heart's not in flight instruction, don't become an instructor." I knew exactly what she meant. And, present company excepted, I think many times the advice on this site to get the CFI comes from a self-serving "pay your dues" point of view rather than a genuine concern for me or my potential students.

Rock on:nana2:
 
I do understand the dilemma faced by people considering working for Mesa. I interviewed with Mesa a couple of months ago, was put into a hiring pool, and I was just offered an August class date. I'm debating whether or not to take it, but I am leaning against it right now. Mostly for financial reasons. I make $30,000 a year flying a 35 year old Piper Seneca for Ram Air, hauling bank checks. I would have to take a $10,000 a year paycut to go fly a 50 or 70 pax RJ for Mesa. It would be very hard for me to lose 1/3 of my annual pay.

Turbine time is a wonderful thing, but I can't pay bills with it.
 
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