Mesa Bases

N

nwa757

Well-Known Member
For anyone that has a knowledge of senority at MAG- a question.

If I do the SJC PACE program in the spring and complete it in april, interview shortly thereafter, what could I possibly expect for a base? IAD? ORD?

I know that this is hard to predict, but can any line pilots make any educated guesses?
 
I predict you'll get some pretty harsh replies to you wanting to do the pace program.

Whats your current flight time situation?
 
well yeah PACE gets bashed by people who are ignorant, don't know much about it and have never been to farmington. people should research before they bash. but hey, it happens.

320TT, MEII
 
Look at it from a practical standpoint -

Because you already have your MEI, you could start CFI'ing in November, and you'd have a good 6 months of flight instruction behind you by the time april rolls around. Let's say you get on with an 'average' flight school and manage to log 60 hours per month of flight time. let's say you make an average of $15/hr for the CFI gig - that's $5,400 for those 360 hours (you will likely bill more than 60 hours a month, however, as that doesn't include pre/post flight, ground, sim, etc.).

320 + 360 = 680 TT. Now, there are regionals that will hire you today to 700 hours (as long as you have 100 multi as well, or close to it). Piedmont, ASA, Colgan, and Commutair come to mind. These places (except Colgan) don't have a training contract, so you can use them to get to your regional of choice should you desire to not hang around.

Let's say you do PACE. You graduate in April after spending $12,000 - $14,000. You've effectively spent $17,400 to 19,400 because you didn't earn any money.

Now, let's saying doing PACE gets you to an airline, say, even 6 months faster (assuming you don't interview at an airline at 700 TT after instructing, and it takes you another 6 months to get called). Is it worth spending upwards of $20,000 for 6 months? If you can say honestly, yes, then do it.

If you have any questions on PACE or Farmington, PM me, I taught there for 12 months (Ab-initio and PACE).

It's a good program, but the PACE program was simply instated because there weren't enough ab-initio students enrolling. Ab-initio is a great program and opportunity, but doing PACE is just downright nuts, especially if you already have your instructor ratings.

~wheelsup
 
All this assumes Mesa is still hiring and you get the job. The most likely base will be IAD or ORD. But CLT may come online or LAS.
 
"well yeah PACE gets bashed by people who are ignorant"

I don't like low time FO's flying jets. Am I ignorant or am I a highly experienced UPS pilot with a valid opinion? What do you think?
 
Well, the friends I have that fly for Mesa generally don't have good things to say about people that have gone through PACE. Something about babysitting.... That's just them though.:p

Interesting thing Don.... I'm one of those low time RJ pilots you don't like. You're right, I'm not pulling my weight in the RJ yet. I will soon, but not yet. The thing about it is this. Even if I had 1000 more hours instructing in a cessna or seminole I would be in the exact same position I am in now. I really think that it is MUCH more about the quality of the time the the quantity. If I had spent my last 500 hours in a navajo or king air instead of a seminole I think I would be a little more prepared. There is certainly a base line. A 250 hour pilot doesn't know nearly enough basic aviation stuff to make the jump, but in 1000 hours, I think the basic knowledge is there, however the ability to handle more faster and more complex aircraft isn't and never will be when jumping from a cessna to an RJ (unless the cessna is a citationwhatever)

Just my .02.... that and the fact that sitting hot reserve gives me time to enter into pointless debates.
 
"A 250 hour pilot doesn't know nearly enough basic aviation stuff to make the jump, but in 1000 hours, I think the basic knowledge is there, however the ability to handle more faster and more complex aircraft isn't and never will be when jumping from a cessna to an RJ"

I don't disagree. I'm not picking on the 1000 hour CFI. They paid their dues and learned a lot doing so. I'm picking on the 250 hour ab initio programs created to make minimum standard airline pilots to fill a seat at the lowest possible cost to management. Heck, for all I know PACE guys have 1000 hours. I'm more against MAPD and JO's methods to keep a percentage of his pilot group low time and optionless.

Why is it a pointless debate?
 
I'll just answer the question without the debate. You can take it or leave it.

You're probably too late for the Spring 2006 semester, but it takes probably around 9-11 months from the time you start the PACE program until you get to your domicile assuming you complete the program and Mesa hires you almost immediately and you survive ALL the wickets.

Most newhires are getting ORD/IAD if you get into the CRJ, MCO if you get the ERJ - although the ERJ training pipeline is all hosed up right now.

Knowing what I know now I wouldn't advocate jumping into a regional until you can at least meet the minimums for an ATP certificate.

And updating the Spring 2005 PACE statistics:

Aug 2004 (last application accepted for Spring 2005)
26 started PACE Jan 2005
21 completed PACE May 2005
21 interviewed Jun 2005
18 hired - 3 not hired

Status of the 18 PACE grads hired (as of Oct 2005)
4 holding a line at a domicile (GCK/FMN/JBR/GJT)
2 holding a reserve line (IAD/MSS)
7 still waiting for IOE (all CRJ newhires)
1 in sim training
1 terminated
2 failed simulator training
1 resigned

So far it's 53% success rate (14 out of 26) for the Spring 2005 PACE folks with a potential 8 that still may or may not make it past training.

Looking back at it the gal that is in GJT has got the best deal of the whole bunch of us - 16-17 days off and 80-90 block hours per bid.
 
"Knowing what I know now I wouldn't advocate jumping into a regional until you can at least meet the minimums for an ATP certificate."

Why is that? I like it....
 
DE727UPS said:
"well yeah PACE gets bashed by people who are ignorant"

I don't like low time FO's flying jets. Am I ignorant or am I a highly experienced UPS pilot with a valid opinion? What do you think?
Click to expand...


I am still trying to figure this one out....

ILS
 
DE727UPS said:
"

I don't disagree. I'm not picking on the 1000 hour CFI. They paid their dues and learned a lot doing so. "
Click to expand...


Right, Right..... Maybe if they had a lot of instrument dual given. Other than that, they spent 1000 hours practicing wind drift correction doing rectangular patterns. While the student was manipulating the controls, the instructor was losing his/her proficiency.

"Mr. Student Sir, may I please have the next landing? Otherwise, I can't teach you anymore because I will not be current."




But I guess it is much better to "pay your dues" like the old timers, than go through an advanced LOFT and CRJ course after CIME that will prepare you to fly the line.


OK.....I am ducking now...

ILS
 
i think what DE727UPS is getting at is during those 1000-1500hrs the pilot will have experienced some of aviation's finer things, like engine failures, approaches shot to mins, t-storms, diversions and the like. the more hours you have the better chance you will have seen some of this stuff. when you talk about the worst turbulence you have flown through, hopefully it was in a plane, not when the crj instructor turned up the turbulence in the sim.
 
"OK.....I am ducking now..."

Beaten to death and no point in pursuing it on this thread. The reader can look at both our backgrounds and decide for himself.
 
DE727UPS said:
The reader can look at both our backgrounds and decide for himself.
Click to expand...


So, are you trying to say that "your" background is far more stellar than others like myself? your a pilot for a major. Congratulations..... Doesn't mean you alway's give the best advice....

I will say though that you do have far too much time on your hands or simply no life. You live on these forums...

ILS
 
"So, are you trying to say that "your" background is far more stellar than others like myself?"

Your words, not mine....but I'd say my background in respect to being a pilot is more stellar than yours. Wouldn't you?

"I will say though that you do have far too much time on your hands or simply no life"

Where do you get that idea?

By the way...why do you sign your name with "Flight Safety, CFI/CFII/MEI"?

Do you think people are impressed by that?
 
DE727UPS said:
"Knowing what I know now I wouldn't advocate jumping into a regional until you can at least meet the minimums for an ATP certificate."

Why is that? I like it....
Click to expand...

After flying around for the last three months, I've been gaining a lot of good experience. So far I don't think I've been a burden on the captains I've flown with or needed to be babysat. But there were some situations where I wished I had more experience - namely dealing marginal weather.

I don't know where I'd acquire the actual experience of flying in marginal weather. If you were a CFI, if the weather was bad enough, then you wouldn't fly. If you were a recreational flyer, the decision was a no go decision, and you didn't fly. The only way I could think of gaining that experience, is to fly in weather, and the only time I can see people flying around in weather is if they had to go because of their job, e.g. 135 IFR freight flying, 121 flying.

So far, I've always been able to run my decisions by the captain, "Hey this is how I want to do it" when we get presented with a situation. All the captains I've flown with have been willing to let me go with my plan. But we talk it over, and if the captain didn't think it was a good idea we'd come to an agreement as to how we'd do it or he'd just impose his plan and I talk about it with him afterwards on the ground to see what he's looking at that I'm not seeing to get some insight. But there will come a time I won't be able to run my decision past the captain, it will be all me and I hope I'll have the experience to be able to make those decisions.

But the company is now starting to upgrade the really junior folks, the junior captain just got hired two months ago, did IOE, flew for a month as an FO, and is now in upgrade class. He was able to do it because no body senior to him has the desire or flight time to upgrade.
 
CFIs fly in marginal weather A LOT - especially II's.

I know I did marginal weather often when doing student cross country training flights as well.

If you never CFI'd, then don't talk about it. You don't know.
 
woodreau said:
But the company is now starting to upgrade the really junior folks, the junior captain just got hired two months ago, did IOE, flew for a month as an FO, and is now in upgrade class. He was able to do it because no body senior to him has the desire or flight time to upgrade.
Click to expand...

You're in the 1900 I'm guessing? Man, if only I would've stayed lol. Ah well, I'm happy here.

~wheelsup
 
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