Mark815
Well-Known Member
There will always be pilots needing/wanting work. If there were pilots willing to PAY to sit in the right seat of an airliner, there will certainly be pilots willing to sign a contract if it means they get their ATP.
Mesa & ATP partnership
- Thread starter 97victor
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There will always be pilots needing/wanting work. If there were pilots willing to PAY to sit in the right seat of an airliner, there will certainly be pilots willing to sign a contract if it means they get their ATP.
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
All of the legacies have 15+ straight years of 400+ retirements per year...and the bubble doesn't end after that, they're just not projecting numbers out that far yet.
If someone wants to go have a military flying career, they're certainly not going to have to sacrifice a future career as an airline pilot to do it...which is just the same tradeoff it has always been over the years.
By tradeoff you mean, it would take 15 years from a guy off the street to get to where his military colleague will be when they are ready to transition?
Isn't that number just Delta specific and just for 5 years. Places like SWA wouldn't see those numbers because of their pilot age. There is definitely a wave and I think it will last for about 5 years and then back to post 2010 hiring rates.
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
All three of the legacies have the 15-year projection of 400+ per year retirements. I was just referencing your comment about the "hiring wave", and noting that so long as the legacies don't shrink, it is going to be years and years of steady hiring for a long time.
Thus, a guy who goes into the military for a 10-year commitment isn't going to miss the hiring boom.
For the sake of those involved, I hope those projections stay true.
chrisreedrules
Master Blaster
10 years is basically a few lifetimes in this industry. A lot can and will happen and a lot will change. Who knows what will happen...
It is like the battered chick right. She gets treated like crap all the time and when a good guy comes around, don't know how to take it.
We finally see signs of positive change in the industry and it is just hard to believe this will continue. I mean, the airlines could blow their wad and have to shut their doors. Who knows, I guess just show up to work, fly, go home and just watch things unfold.
chrisreedrules
Master Blaster
Well that was my point. No sense worrying about this crap. What is going to happen is going to happen despite your wants/needs/worries. All you can do is your best to do your job well, network, and keep rubbing that lucky rabbit's foot.
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
This thing is one step closer to the MCPL, and it's dangerous for a guy like me. A guy who gave up his aviation dreams, for something far more... practical. Who figured he was too old and time had passed him by...
Stick with the current plan. Stick with the plan, stick with the plan, don't go for the emotional route, stick with the plan...
The military is a lot more than just putting in your time to qualify for an airline job. I have spoken with a number of guys and gals who after their initial commitment is over, the go back as a reserve to finish up and get the retirement benefits too. Plus, you can send your kids to college on government money off you work it right. In hind sight, I kick my own ass all the time for not going.
Devils advocate here... In a way this isn't a bad idea, but I do not want to take away from the profession by saying that..passive aggressive I know.
If you know what your are getting into and embark on this journey, at least you can mitigate the financial crunch with less student loans to deal with once training is done. Keeping in mind you are being tailored to a specific airline per ce but that is not the end all. You can do your contract time and move on, or stick around if you like it.
It would be nice if the majors had an ab initio type of training like this..if they did what would be the difference?
If you know what your are getting into and embark on this journey, at least you can mitigate the financial crunch with less student loans to deal with once training is done. Keeping in mind you are being tailored to a specific airline per ce but that is not the end all. You can do your contract time and move on, or stick around if you like it.
It would be nice if the majors had an ab initio type of training like this..if they did what would be the difference?
Cóndor
Well-Known Member
Or get good at doing something else on the side that can support you when the aviation industry takes its cyclical dives . . . preferably something NOT related to aviation of course . . . it has always worked for me!
I can't even imagine the competition that would exist to get into those programs
hook_dupin
Well-Known Member
Agree. Its also much more work than just an airline job. Join because you legitimately want to serve your country and not because you think its a good path to the airlines or you like the benefits.
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
Eh... not sure I agree. I don't see anything wrong with joining an organization upfront for what you can get out of it/what they can do for you. You don't have to be a gung ho jar head who always wanted to be in the military since you could remember to join up.
Nothing wrong with being poor but wanting a college education, that your parents can't afford and enlisting only with the mind set. Knowing that after X years, you get your school paid for, and get to become the veterinarian that I always wanted to be. This is a benefit, a recruitment tool. I'm in a similar position actually. Social Work carries a stigma of low wages, and long hours. But it's a vastly more diverse degree, than say Psychology. DCFC/CPS in the state has 15k child abuse cases already stacked up, and probably more growing every day. No one wants to work for Child Protective Service and wade through the sewage of humanity, more especially with the low pay. Well DCFS/CPS has a program where they will pay 100% for your undergrad and Masters in Social Work, and also pay you a salary while in college. Catch is you have to work for them 1-2 years post graduation. Both sides get what they want/need. Joining the military to get school paid for etc, IMO is no different.
I honor those who chose to serve and risked the possibility of the ultimate sacrifice, but let's not make military service out to be something akin to angels flying down from Heaven and anointing you personally.
hook_dupin
Well-Known Member
The problem is that most folks don't actually understand what's being traded. The military as an organization can be incredibly backwards.
I remember watching @Hacker15e, who at the time was a combat-experienced fighter pilot and flight lead, be chastised for his percieved inability to effectively distribute kevlar helmets to the unit. We already had helmets. These ones were designed to better incorporate tactical radios and were actually less protective. As an aviator, the only thing we used these things for was as high-priced fruit bowls.
Hacker- I'm sure you still suck at passing out helmets.
I'm currently stationed outside of Boston in a non-flying job that has virtually nothing to do with my experience as a combat aviator or flight test professional (the AF has spent at least 3.5 years on my aviation-related education at this point). I now manage IT programs with no background in that area.
Well, it's snowed a bunch recently, and the unit snow blower broke. I put together a brief and presented my arguement to a senior level officer on why we should spend $2100 on snow blower parts. In Boston. In February. During the highest snow fall season on record....
...I lost the argument.
I see this view as a side-effect of having less than 1% of Americans actively serving. Catch-22 and MASH were funny works because there were a number of Americans who had seen the military at its silliest to make those things resonate. Everyone holds the military on such a high pedestal now that no one is willing to poke fun at it.
Yes, many have made the ultimate sacrifice. I'm proud that I can serve in America. At the same time, the military is far from Heaven.
Those entering should do so because they genuinely want to serve. The guys entering with the "I'm going to get mine and get out" mentality end up getting highly frustrated with the organizational struggles.
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Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
I had nearly forgotten about that episode. It is a wonder I ever made higher rank with project management skills that stanky. Thanks, Stoner.
sp238882
Hey-ooooo
I see what you did there.Are you still showing up to work?
bigD1031
Well-Known Member
Not sure if anyone is still interested but I found this article on avweb last night that has an outline of the program.....
http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/new...h-Tuition-Reimbursement-Program-223660-1.html
http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/new...h-Tuition-Reimbursement-Program-223660-1.html