Meetup/Retreat

Maximilian_Jenius said:
I'd hope that I wouldn't, washing out is actually kind of a worry for me. Having never have gone through a 121 type ground school.
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I can’t speak for 121, maybe it’s like astronaut style, but so far in my career the further I’ve gone and the more the training was hyped up the easier it turned out to be.
I obviously don’t know you well but to have made it where you are you’re clearly pretty bright academically, the only thing I could see tripping you up is with your psych background having a tough time letting go and just “cooperate and graduate”.
 
Maximilian_Jenius said:
My priorities when time comes is it an ALPA carrier. But, honestly as a SKYW cadet they owe me $20k towards my loan, if I pass indoc… o_O

Decisions. Decisions.
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Whether Skywest is ALPA or non-union should not weigh on your decision. Skywest is still one of the best regionals out there and they guys coming through I’ve flown with that are ex-Skywest are top notch.



Except one, who shouldn’t be driving a car let alone flying planes.
 
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Roger Roger said:
I can’t speak for 121, maybe it’s like astronaut style, but so far in my career the further I’ve gone and the more the training was hyped up the easier it turned out to be.
I obviously don’t know you well but to have made it where you are you’re clearly pretty bright academically, the only thing I could see tripping you up is with your psych background having a tough time letting go and just “cooperate and graduate”.
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We'll hopefully see one day what 121 training style is like. I know if its AQP I hear that they tell you what to know/study and essentially what will be on the test. Or some variation of that. From what I've heard here. . .
 
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Maximilian_Jenius said:
In addition to what other mentioned. CFI'ing is $7k and some checkrides. Surveying is 0 out of pocket and just passing an interview and then getting paid to build hours.
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I tried like hell to avoid CFI as well, whole point I came to this forum. Eventually I learned it wouldn't work or I'll spend more time trying and less time building hours.

To each their own, but don't wait around forever trying to avoid it. There's going to be a point where the ROI will have passed and you're just eating up more time and money trying to avoid it. I'm rooting for ya, hopefully you get something soon.
 
121 regional is getting more easy by the year. When I was hired it was 4 weeks of ground, a indoc test that wasn't a cake walk, systems test that I studied everyday in groups for weeks for. Now it's all on CBT's. Fail test at end of module? We all know what happens next, just redo. I upgraded and the "test" was an FOM quiz. Systems tests gone. Apparently the weeding out is in sims and even then they push guys out to OE that do 100-150 hours of OE before they wash out. Just put in the effort and I think you'll be plenty fine. They don't make it very difficult anymore and even my experience wasn't difficult compared to what people did 1 or 3 decades ago.
 
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tcco94 said:
121 regional is getting more easy by the year. When I was hired it was 4 weeks of ground, a indoc test that wasn't a cake walk, systems test that I studied everyday in groups for weeks for. Now it's all on CBT's. Fail test at end of module? We all know what happens next, just redo. I upgraded and the "test" was an FOM quiz. Systems tests gone. Apparently the weeding out is in sims and even then they push guys out to OE that do 100-150 hours of OE before they wash out. Just put in the effort and I think you'll be plenty fine. They don't make it very difficult anymore and even my experience wasn't difficult compared to what people did 1 or 3 decades ago.
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And then we wonder why the Marvins and Conrads have planes falling out of the sky.

If only somebody (airlines, FAA) had said to them at some point “hey you shouldn’t be flying planes” then more people would be alive today.
 
tcco94 said:
121 regional is getting more easy by the year. When I was hired it was 4 weeks of ground, a indoc test that wasn't a cake walk, systems test that I studied everyday in groups for weeks for. Now it's all on CBT's. Fail test at end of module? We all know what happens next, just redo. I upgraded and the "test" was an FOM quiz. Systems tests gone. Apparently the weeding out is in sims and even then they push guys out to OE that do 100-150 hours of OE before they wash out. Just put in the effort and I think you'll be plenty fine. They don't make it very difficult anymore and even my experience wasn't difficult compared to what people did 1 or 3 decades ago.
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I'm not sure if it's that easy at every regional. I don't think I've heard of anyone getting that much IOE time at my regional. Granted it was a few years ago but someone in my initial class washed out after needing 3 extra sim sessions. When I went through initial and 145 transition training you'd be placed on increased scrutiny if you needed extra sim sessions or IOE.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Why are you so worried? How’s your record been in your flight training so far?
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Why because I'm human, it's natural to worry about the unknown. But also121 is the big show, the whole point (to me) of where I've wanted to be. Failure brings negative consequences to advancing this career. But I should state that I'm not waking up nightly in a cold sweat worrying about washing out. It's just something in the back of my mind that I'm aware is always a possibility of at this point.
 
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tcco94 said:
I tried like hell to avoid CFI as well, whole point I came to this forum. Eventually I learned it wouldn't work or I'll spend more time trying and less time building hours.

To each their own, but don't wait around forever trying to avoid it. There's going to be a point where the ROI will have passed and you're just eating up more time and money trying to avoid it. I'm rooting for ya, hopefully you get something soon.
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I've already decided, that if I don't get something by spring/summer 22 after I get my multi. I'll break down and get the CFI. But I'm hearing besides having CFI ratings, having the combo of a multi and high performance cert, is a winning combo to land low time jobs as of late.
 
Maximilian_Jenius said:
Why because I'm human, it's natural to worry about the unknown. But also121 is the big show, the whole point (to me) of where I've wanted to be. Failure brings negative consequences to advancing this career. But I should state that I'm not waking up nightly in a cold sweat worrying about washing out. It's just something in the back of my mind that I'm aware is always a possibility of at this point.
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Don’t even sweat it. Try to take a mindset that you’re gonna pass, and in fact, have already passed. And that checkrides are just a step along the way. Don’t let it scare you. IMO, private, instrument, commercial were harder than any 121 checkride I took. You pass the private, instrument, commercial with 1 failure or less? You’re fine.
 
Roger Roger said:
maybe it’s like astronaut style
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…nope.

The hardest 121 school I did was that turboprop everyone gives me a hard time about talking about (losers), and the hardest not-121 school I did was for the King Air. There’s nothing astronaut-style about any of the other ones I’ve been through.
 
Maximilian_Jenius said:
Why because I'm human, it's natural to worry about the unknown. But also121 is the big show, the whole point (to me) of where I've wanted to be. Failure brings negative consequences to advancing this career. But I should state that I'm not waking up nightly in a cold sweat worrying about washing out. It's just something in the back of my mind that I'm aware is always a possibility of at this point.
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You're right. 121 is the Big Kahuna. Seriously, have you considered a pipeline university? You have already achieved a lot by getting where you are. Why not consider a university that can offer all the training you need, CFI to boot and then if you pass the interview, a career at American Airlines?
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
And then we wonder why the Marvins and Conrads have planes falling out of the sky.

If only somebody (airlines, FAA) had said to them at some point “hey you shouldn’t be flying planes” then more people would be alive today.
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Conrad washed out of 121 training twice. 3 times if you count captain upgrade. Seems like he was told that at least a couple of times. Nothing a carrier can do about people lying on apps.
 
Yakob said:
I'm not sure if it's that easy at every regional. I don't think I've heard of anyone getting that much IOE time at my regional. Granted it was a few years ago but someone in my initial class washed out after needing 3 extra sim sessions. When I went through initial and 145 transition training you'd be placed on increased scrutiny if you needed extra sim sessions or IOE.
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I don't think it's a norm and it was the same at mine, you got put into special tracking. But I think every regional lets things go through the cracks and pushes people to the line a lot more than they were trying to weed out in years past. And honestly how can they otherwise? They'll never staff their airline if they make it survival of the fittest as they should...
 
Yakob said:
I'm not sure if it's that easy at every regional. I don't think I've heard of anyone getting that much IOE time at my regional. Granted it was a few years ago but someone in my initial class washed out after needing 3 extra sim sessions. When I went through initial and 145 transition training you'd be placed on increased scrutiny if you needed extra sim sessions or IOE.
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then the new director of training changed the sim footprint from 10 to 13 sims and with the wave of a magic wand a bunch of people got taken off increased scrutiny
there were a few with 100hr of OE, but many more with 80+ with no signoff before covid. it was truly the most frustrating thing trying to weed out problem children in the actual airplane instead of the safety of a simulator
 
Dacuj said:
You're right. 121 is the Big Kahuna. Seriously, have you considered a pipeline university? You have already achieved a lot by getting where you are. Why not consider a university that can offer all the training you need, CFI to boot and then if you pass the interview, a career at American Airlines?
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If that track is so great why do you have to sell it so much? Do you see anyone at any other airline trying this hard?
I know I don't work at American but do you think I have to actively convince people to work at my place of employment?
Any product that is good sells itself. You are proving yours requires bonfires and putting others down to try and sell yours.
 
Maximilian_Jenius said:
Why because I'm human, it's natural to worry about the unknown. But also121 is the big show, the whole point (to me) of where I've wanted to be. Failure brings negative consequences to advancing this career. But I should state that I'm not waking up nightly in a cold sweat worrying about washing out. It's just something in the back of my mind that I'm aware is always a possibility of at this point.
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So here is the thing. I am not a smart man. I study like crap, retain like a mesh bucket, utilize my time poorly, and am barely literate (as my posts on here often display). I failed two checkrides in primary training, and I like to tell people that I am the world's okayist pilot.

With that said, I've been through 4 initial type courses (including one that was at one time fairly renowned for being a tough course), 1 upgrade, and countless PCs and AQP events. Haven't botched a single one of those. It's not necessarily because they are easy, but because they are generally well done and the people teaching them genuinely want you to succeed. Washout rates are VERY low. I've been to 4 different airlines and I can count on one hand the number of people in my class that washed out...and not a single one of them was because they just couldn't hack it. One was too busy drinking, another missed her boyfriend too much and wanted to go home, another got had a problem stealing from the hotel and berating the front desk girls, and another just decided he didn't want to be there.

If you want to succeed...you absolutely will.
 
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