Medical Helicopter crash In Colorado

[Flyinhigh728]

Sad day for the aviation community. Another medical helicopter has crashed earlier today in Colorado. The pilot was killed, while the flight nurse and flight paramedic made it out with serious injuries.


http://kdvr.com/2015/07/03/flight-for-life-helicopter-catches-fire-in-summit-county/

 

[deadstick]

RIP.

 

[bc2209]

RIP brother. This stuff has got to stop.

 

[NickH]

Except it won't. The 135 EMS industry has been struggling to hire over the last couple of years, and it's getting worse. The better companies have been increasing pay, the less reputable have been cutting corners, pushing pilots, and hiring barely certified medical staff. The good part is that a pilot with a few thousand hours can choose their EMS job right now. The bad is that you NEED to be choosing carefully. It is a certainty that we will see more accidents this year, and many of them will be avoidable.

 

[dustoff17]

RIP. Thoughts and Prayers.....

Any info on cause?

 

[deadstick]

Except it won't. The 135 EMS industry has been struggling to hire over the last couple of years, and it's getting worse. The better companies have been increasing pay, the less reputable have been cutting corners, pushing pilots, and hiring barely certified medical staff. The good part is that a pilot with a few thousand hours can choose their EMS job right now. The bad is that you NEED to be choosing carefully. It is a certainty that we will see more accidents this year, and many of them will be avoidable.

Depending on who you talk to, AMC isn't bad. I know one guy who used to work there and I glad to be gone, but others have different experiences.

Weather seemed clear, too.

 

[MikeD]

Depending on who you talk to, AMC isn't bad. I know one guy who used to work there and I glad to be gone, but others have different experiences.

Weather seemed clear, too.

Article says it was on takeoff. And if I'm not mistaken that area is around 9,000 elevation. Just some interesting present-factors.

 

[NickH]

Depending on who you talk to, AMC isn't bad. I know one guy who used to work there and I glad to be gone, but others have different experiences.

Weather seemed clear, too.

I've generally heard good things about AMC. I wasn't trying to say anything bad about them specifically, just state of the industry at the moment.

 

[Flyinhigh728]

Article says it was on takeoff. And if I'm not mistaken that area is around 9,000 elevation. Just some interesting present-factors.

Would you expect limited power at 9,000 feet in an Astar B3 with only 3 crew on board? I've always heard that the B3's have very good performance and a very effective t/r as well.

 

[GypsyPilot]

I've always been curious... How does it work for companies like this one (Flight For Life). Are the crews employed by the hospital? Who owns the helo? Who has operational control?

 

[MikeD]

Would you expect limited power at 9,000 feet in an Astar B3 with only 3 crew on board? I've always heard that the B3's have very good performance and a very effective t/r as well.

The B3s kind of have lousy performance....at least ours do. But its not a function of the aircraft specifically, but moreso what we have them loaded down with. Or with what an EMS bird would be loaded down with, depending on fuel load. Just the other night, attempting a night resupply to 3 persons on a 6200' mountaintop, 85% fuel, 2 crew onboard, maybe 200lbs of total extra equipment weight, around 18C. And we didn't have OGE. Attempted to milk down an approach to an IGE hover at a minimum, and found there was no IGE either, even though supposedly we'd have it and winds weren't a factor. Ended up having to make multiple runs by this mountaintop at or just below ETL to airdrop the supplies, and still pulling nearly 10.0 on the FLI with a red underline (limit 10.4 below 40 kts).

So at 9000 MSL? I can't imagine that EMS AStars are flying with anymore than maybe 45-50% fuel, what with 3 crew, all the medical gear, a backboard, a backboard rack, etc. And still have to have weight available to carry a patient of anymore than a medium weight. I'd be very surprised if it was different.

Now, a clean B3 at sea level? That's a performing machine.

 

[MikeD]

I've always been curious... How does it work for companies like this one (Flight For Life). Are the crews employed by the hospital? Who owns the helo? Who has operational control?

Depends on the operation. Some are hospital owned aircraft and crews, but not many. Others are hospital owned aircraft and contract crews. Others are contract aircraft and crews. It all depends.

 

[Flyinhigh728]

The B3s kind of have lousy performance....at least ours do. But its not a function of the aircraft specifically, but moreso what we have them loaded down with. Or with what an EMS bird would be loaded down with, depending on fuel load. Just the other night, attempting a night resupply to 3 persons on a 6200' mountaintop, 85% fuel, 2 crew onboard, maybe 200lbs of total extra equipment weight, around 18C. And we didn't have OGE. Attempted to milk down an approach to an IGE hover at a minimum, and found there was no IGE either, even though supposedly we'd have it and winds weren't a factor. Ended up having to make multiple runs by this mountaintop at or just below ETL to airdrop the supplies, and still pulling nearly 10.0 on the FLI with a red underline (limit 10.4 below 40 kts).

So at 9000 MSL? I can't imagine that EMS AStars are flying with anymore than maybe 45-50% fuel, what with 3 crew, all the medical gear, a backboard, a backboard rack, etc. And still have to have weight available to carry a patient of anymore than a medium weight. I'd be very surprised if it was different.

Now, a clean B3 at sea level? That's a performing machine.

Very interesting and informative post. I guess I had always assumed that some of newer turbine aircraft had great OGE performance even up at higher altitudes. Thanks for clarifying.

It will be interesting to read the Ntsb report when it comes out. It's always sad to see this happen as often as it has the past few years. The HEMS industry that seems to be in a lot of trouble.

 

[gne in prog]

I don't know anything about helicopters. Does this mean anything or just media non-sense?

"The Astar AS350 B3 helicopter had only been in service in Frisco for less than a year. A bigger, more powerful engine was installed in August."

http://www.9news.com/story/news/loc...-say-helicopter-crashed-on-take-off/29673645/

 

[JMK]

I always thought the B3 did well at high altitude if it can land on Everest:

I'm sure it was gutted + steady wind for translational lift. I don't have any experience on the matter though.

 

[MikeD]

I always thought the B3 did well at high altitude if it can land on Everest:

I'm sure it was gutted + steady wind for translational lift. I don't have any experience on the matter though.

Light on fuel and lightweight? Sure. Good bird.

Very interesting and informative post. I guess I had always assumed that some of newer turbine aircraft had great OGE performance even up at higher altitudes. Thanks for clarifying.

It will be interesting to read the Ntsb report when it comes out. It's always sad to see this happen as often as it has the past few years. The HEMS industry that seems to be in a lot of trouble.

Part of the problems with HEMS is the fact that in many operations, there's little flying going on. I've seen some where guys in some locations were getting single-digit hours in a month. That's generally why they want guys who are fairly experienced and don't mind not flying a lot, rather than a timebuilder with moderate experience. Too, in HEMS, especially with 911, every flight is to somewhere new. Road, pad, highway, etc; little to no time for any preplanning. Not necessarily a factor here, just a general challenging factor involved in the overall operation.

I don't know anything about helicopters. Does this mean anything or just media non-sense?

"The Astar AS350 B3 helicopter had only been in service in Frisco for less than a year. A bigger, more powerful engine was installed in August."

May or may not be related. Possibly just a factual bit of information. The spiral post liftoff has some concern.....

 

[deadstick]

Article says it was on takeoff. And if I'm not mistaken that area is around 9,000 elevation. Just some interesting present-factors.

There are AWOS stations north and south, but there kind of far away. Both were CAVU, but one reported gusty winds at the time.

From the witness's account, it reminded me of the one in NM last year which was another B3. As for the new bird, another version was that an older aircraft (B2?) was replaced with this 2013 B3. However, if it was really a new "more powerful" engine, I have to wonder if they put that Honeywell STC...which has not worked out too well for EagleMed. Time will tell.

 

[MikeD]

There are AWOS stations north and south, but there kind of far away. Both were CAVU, but one reported gusty winds at the time.

From the witness's account, it reminded me of the one in NM last year which was another B3. As for the new bird, another version was that an older aircraft (B2?) was replaced with this 2013 B3. However, if it was really a new "more powerful" engine, I have to wonder if they put that Honeywell STC...which has not worked out too well for EagleMed. Time will tell.

The description of this one seems to have similarities to the NM one.

WX-wise I don't think there are any factors there. But the elevation definitely makes me want to review some performance calcs.

 

[deadstick]

I was thinking winds and temp. Looks like there's a stand-alone AWOS near there at Copper Mountain (KCCU), but it's at 12,000 ft. At the time of the crash the temp there was 19C and 30.62".

 

[badtransam97]

Makes me more than ready to take that paycut and head on to the regionals..I'm tired of reading about these things happening and tired of not knowing what to do about it, if there even is anything.
I like the flying, don't get me wrong, but the stress of the job seems much greater than what it would be flying planes. Like some of the others have said, the landing areas are constantly changing, most are VFR programs, which is stupid, and most use equipment barely able to take the crew and patient.
I fly b3's as well, and granted, I am at 600-800 above sea level here, I have still had to pull the guys out of it to get out of places. Beats a 206, but considering my company used to fly Bell 222's, seems to me we've all went a few steps backwards to keep up with the guys flying the 206's for half the cost..