Medals(rant)

[USMC-SSGT]

dont forget that the bronze star is not just a combat action related medal anymore. If it is not decorated with a V it can simply mean that you had any slight miniscule thing to do with a combat related mission and didnt screw up (provided you were 0-4 and above).


example.
My Battalion Commander got the bronze star when she PCS'd. We did a 12 month tour and she was the Battalion Commander and because she was actually in charge she got the award. She spent 6 months in the rear going back and forth for various reasons. We call it the "HABU" ribbon for "hook a brotha up" all of the officers nominate each other for them from the naval achievment and commendation medal all the way up to the bronze star, they ALL have them. You will not find an officer who has been to Iraq without one of those awards...NEVER

also the combat action ribbon, I can not count how many random officers tried to jump in on our patrols in the hope of kicking it in the back of the hummer and us finding some action so they can wear their CAR through the admin hall proudly

Sore subject

 

[SteveC]

Congrats Fish!

 

[sdfcvoh]

ya - congrats!

Gonna be this Thursday, the 27th. Friday is a "goal day" from the wing because they are closing out the budget and the flying program early, so we're getting the day off. (Of course, the pay doesn't change until Oct. 1)

 

[H46Bubba]

These are simply the facts of life in the military. People can choose to be idealistic and wish that medals meant things, and that all good soldiers get rewarded. Or, you can be a realist, and realize medals don't mean squat. (Exceptions aside.)

Also know most in the military, even those with a rack of medals, know they really didn't do much more than their jobs to get them. When you see your commanders up there getting an award, they are probably thinking their Joes should get the award, not them. But the process of not accepting an award is a PITA and not worth the hassle.

As a former commander, I'll own up to all my awards:

Army Service Ribbon: You get this for joining the Army. Everyone gets one.
National Defense Service Medal (2): You get these for being in the military while there is a war on. Everyone gets one.
Good Conduct Medal: Got this for three years of enlisted service without getting in trouble. Everyone gets one.
NCO Professional Development Ribbon:Got this for passing a 4 week school. Everyone gets one.
Army Achievement Medal (2): Got these for doing my job in the field as an enlisted infantryman.
Army Commendation Medal (5): 3 were for PCSing/ETSing, two were for wartime service. (Meaning, I got them cause I was there.)
Air Medal (4): All for flying in combat. Really just a service award. I never did anything special.
Meritorious Service Medal: Given simply because I was a company commander.
Iraq and Afghanistan Campaign Medals: Given because I was there.
Global War on Terror Medal: Don't get me started on this one.

The award system is broke, but it's nothing new. It's been broke along time. Nothing to really worry about IMO.

As an enlisted guy here's what I racked up for 7 years service:
Navy and Marine Corps Achievment Medal: Me and a buddy were on duty when our squadron was mobilized to perform SAR down in North Carolina due to the flloding resulting from Hurricane Floyd(Not to be confused with Lloyd!) Just the two of us pulled out four aircraft from the hangar and got them ready for preflight, allowing us to be second on the scene.
Navy Meritorious Unit Commendation (2): Because I was there.
Navy Battle "E" (2): Unit award; got it for being there and doing my job
Navy Goog Conduct Medal (2): For not getting caught! Having the NJP dissappear from my record got me a second award.
National Defense: Gimme award for serving during a war or conflict.
Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal (2): Unit award for being in the Arabian Gulf and Kosovo/Albania operations.
Global War on Terrorism Service Award: For serving after 9/11 in a unit that participated in operations in the "War on Terrorism"
Humainitarian Service Medal: For particpating in the rescue of 35 people in the aftermath of Hurricane Floyd.
Navy Sea Service Deployment(2): For deploying for over 90 day. I wish you could count all those day on workups as well!
Navy Rifle Qulaification Medal w/ Expert Device: For being a really good shooter!:bandit:
Navy Pistol Qualification Medal w/ Expert Device: For being able to shoot paper really well!

 

[GatorFC]

Good Conduct Medal: Got this for three years of enlisted service without getting in trouble. Everyone gets one...

I have one (x2), but I wouldn't say everyone gets one, at least not in the Navy.

Humainitarian Service Medal: For particpating in the rescue of 35 people in the aftermath of Hurricane Floyd.

One of the few that I'm proud of. We provided relief and supplies to Puerto Rico and surrounding islands after Hurricane Georges.

Navy Sea Service Deployment(2): For deploying for over 90 day. I wish you could count all those day on workups as well!

That's the one I look for on sailors. "Sailors belong on ships, and ships belong at sea." The C-4I dept. head on my first deployment was a LCDR. with nary a deployment on her record.

 

[Boom Boom]

Ya, the medal system is a joke...

Got a Navy Comm while the CO got a bronze star for nearly single-handly screwing up a strike package... But remember the big picture and what lets you sleep at night. And it ain't no medal w/ a ribbon!

100% in agreement but it is the sytem like the donkey and carrot...

For perspective: Been an 0-4 for abour 6 years with very little likelyhood of promoting but that is what I get for not shutting up about the above and many other bologna issues... :yup:

 

[Hacker15e]

I'm another one who agrees that the current US military is giving itself way too many decorations.

Here are a couple perspectives..

First off, you all seem to be forgetting that a Bronze Star may be awarded for "merit", too...although most of you seem to be thinking of the Bronze Stars that are awarded for "valor". Different beasts entirely, and anyone who knows what they're looking for will look at that Bronze Star, not see the "V" device on it, and know exactly what they're dealing with.

Second, this is not a new phenomenon by any means. The attached message was written by a previous boss of mine (now an O-6, an O-4 when this was written) back in '99 circa Operation Allied Force:

After arriving at ACSC, I began hearing what a cluster the whole Kosovo air war had been from my buddies from Europe with targets being selected at 1600 Penn Ave, D.C., only after approval from the French only to be missed by incompetent aircrews due to all the cuts in training and all the contingency flying. Anyway, none of this could upset my newly found "no worries" attitude and I just chalked it up the crazy political times.

Then some of my close fighter brethren relayed to me the medal frenzy - it went something like this: If you supported the operation from Missouri, England or Aviano and you're a Lt Col - you get a Bronze Star.
If you saw a Surface to Air missile in flight - you apply for a DFC. If you threat reacted - you're a shoe-in. Each wing gets a Silver Star to distribute - What, a #####ing lottery for a Silver Star?

My buds told me it became fighter wing versus fighter wing versus bomber wing to see which wing commander could win the most Kosovo Olympic Gold. You either jumped on the team bandwagon or you were considered against it.

It further inbred worse since it was primarily an Air Force show - therefore our Lt Cols with their Bronze Stars could outperform the other services when competing for those hallowed joint jobs - You Gotta Be #####ting Me! The service with the motto "Integrity in all we do" is mortaging its dignity to promote its manufactured self image.

Finally, I just got back from a tour at Bagram over the summer. I have long been soured on the AF's medal system -- when it comes to aviators, at least -- after an experience during "Shock and Awe" in 2003 where I was angered over what some heavy-hitting awards were given out for (DFCs, mostly). So this time around, I was very happy to see that leadership was very careful in what they were putting up for medals.

That is, until I saw this very recently:

http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123067606

 

[staplegun]

That's the one I look for on sailors. "Sailors belong on ships, and ships belong at sea." The C-4I dept. head on my first deployment was a LCDR. with nary a deployment on her record.

Funny story form my active duty Navy days:

We had just started a WestPac (my second), so me and my buddy decide we should see Australia. After we've pulled into Pearl we take our skipper out on the town, get him drunk and convince him to sign leave papers for us authorizing 2 weeks leave and that we would meet the Enterprise in Subic. We run back to the ship, check out with the duty officer, pack a bag and run for Hickam before he can change his mind. That's when we discover the flaw in our plans - you needed (at the time, don't know if you still do) a visa to go to Australia, and it's 20:00! We know if we wait a day and get our visa's we might not get to go, so we ask the lady behind the desk, "What about New Zealand?" The Air Force C-141's itinerary was Hickam - Pago-Pago - Christchurch - Sydney. She says, "No visa for New Zealand," so we're off like a prom dress...

We had a great week on the South Island of New Zealand (that's another thread ,) then start back for the Phillipines. The only way to Subic was through Hickam again, so off we go...

So, 2 days later we're standing in line at the MAC terminal in Hickam waiting to check in for the flight to the P.I., and we're chatting with a Naval Aviator Lieutenant standing behind us in Dress Blues. In the course of the conversation we discover he is a P-3 pilot. I notice he has a Sea Service Ribbon, so the conversation goes like this:

Me: "Oh, were you prior enlisted?"

Him: "No, why do you ask?"

Me: "Well, you've got a Sea Service Ribbon on..."

Him: "Oh yeah, we P-3 guys get that for deploying. This one's for 6 months at Subic!"


My friend says to this day that he never understood the phrase "murder in your eyes" until he saw me at that moment. He literally had to pull me away from the guy as I was about to start a huge brawl in the middle of the Hickam MAC terminal...

I was SO pissed! At that moment in the peace-time Navy I thought that was the only ribbon worth having, and then I found out a land-based P-3 deployment to Subic, Kef, or Sigonella drinking beer every night at the "O" club earned it too!!!


Kevin

 

[SkyCougar]

Wow guys, my dad would be appalled, but he probably already knew about that before he passed away 10 years ago, and didn't bother mentioning it to me. I bet the subject got tossed around down at the VFW though!

Kevin, let me know when you start that "South Island Of New Zealand" thread. I have a lot that I can add to that one!

 

[Hacker15e]

My friend says to this day that he never understood the phrase "murder in your eyes" until he saw me at that moment. He literally had to pull me away from the guy as I was about to start a huge brawl in the middle of the Hickam MAC terminal...

Why would that make you so angry?

The fact of the matter is that anyone who has really "earned" anything doesn't need that thing to make them feel pride for what they've done.

 

[SkyCougar]

Why would that make you so angry?

The fact of the matter is that anyone who has really "earned" anything doesn't need that thing to make them feel pride for what they've done.

Knowing Kevin, I seriously doubt he was "really pissed" - more like a figure of speech. I'm sure he's quite proud of his accomplishments and doesn't need medals to make him feel good about himself.

 

[frog_flyer]

If I wore stars on my shoulders, I would make it a top priority to create a "Superior Sexual Harassment Briefer Ribbon." This prestigious award would be presented to the outstanding airman charged with the vital task of refreshing our warriors' knowledge of current sexual harassment policies.

The ribbon would look like this:

 

[Lefty]

Why would that make you so angry?

The fact of the matter is that anyone who has really "earned" anything doesn't need that thing to make them feel pride for what they've done.

+1

 

[Lefty]

Knowing Kevin, I seriously doubt he was "really pissed" - more like a figure of speech. I'm sure he's quite proud of his accomplishments and doesn't need medals to make him feel good about himself.

He wasnt "really pissed" he was...well...let me quote it from his post:

...I was SO pissed! At that moment...

:nana2:

 

[SkyCougar]

He wasnt "really pissed" he was...well...let me quote it from his post:





:nana2:

I liked Staplegun's story. Ya'all must be a ton of fun to drink beer and share stories with.

 

[bap327]

Probably wasn't the first and won't be the last time this happens. Who was the big shot who blew his head off a few years ago when he was caught wearing unauthorized ribbons? Wasn't he the CNO or something big like that?

 

[H46Bubba]

Probably wasn't the first and won't be the last time this happens. Who was the big shot who blew his head off a few years ago when he was caught wearing unauthorized ribbons? Wasn't he the CNO or something big like that?

Yeah, ADM Mike Boorda was the CNO back in 94-96. He was wearing a "V" device for Valor on his Navy and Marine Coprs Achievment Medal and Navy Commendation Medal. Both were awarded for combat action in Vietnam. It never mentioned in the citations whether he was authorized to wear them or not. An instruction that came out after the Vietnam War clearly stated that authorization to wear the "V" had to be clearly stated in the citation. There was no clear cut decision as to if he was or was not authorized to wear them. He was instrumental in creating programs for enlisted personnel to get commissions and serve as officers. His suicide was more of a legacy than the good things he did. There are a lot of individuls out there wearing medals and ribbons they didn't earn, so it's not an isolated case.

 

[GatorFC]

While it wouldn't drive me to fight, I understand staplegun's sentiment.

To me, if you're in the Navy, an "at sea" deployment is a rite of passage, and the Sea Service Ribbon tells me you shared in the same joy, pain, and mostly misery :insane: that I also had to on a "cruise."

Hey, I'd salute someone and tell them what a lucky S.O.B. they are to snag a choice overseas billet , but there's no way you can tell me that 6 months at Subic is as deserving of a Sea Service award as 6 months floating in the middle of the Ocean.

It's not that we need a piece of paper, cloth, or metal to make us feel pride in what we've done. It's more an affront that someone has a piece of paper, cloth, or metal to take pride in what they've not done.

 

[SkyCougar]

While it wouldn't drive me to fight, I understand staplegun's sentiment.

To me, if you're in the Navy, an "at sea" deployment is a rite of passage, and the Sea Service Ribbon tells me you shared in the same joy, pain, and mostly misery :insane: that I also had to on a "cruise."

Hey, I'd salute someone and tell them what a lucky S.O.B. they are to snag a choice overseas billet , but there's no way you can tell me that 6 months at Subic is as deserving of a Sea Service award as 6 months floating in the middle of the Ocean.

It's not that we need a piece of paper, cloth, or metal to make us feel pride in what we've done. It's more an affront that someone has a piece of paper, cloth, or metal to take pride in what they've not done.

Nicely put Gator.

 

[88MPH]

It's not that we need a piece of paper, cloth, or metal to make us feel pride in what we've done. It's more an affront that someone has a piece of paper, cloth, or metal to take pride in what they've not done.

That's how its said!

I know guys who got a whole bit presentation about 4 minutes to read, and when it came down to what he ACTUALLY did, "Staff Sgt So-And-So expertly troubleshot a faulty Fuel Flow gauge, and subsequently removed and replaced the gauge, as well as saftied the aircraft for maintenance, ensuring on time launch of XXX mission for XXX aircraft. His herculean efforts ..."

That's where I stopped listening and tried to lock my knees to pass out. "Herculean???" Are you effing kidding me??? He looked at the gauge, and it read 0 while the engine was running. Any shmoe would know there had to be fuel flow.

Add about 160 more of these, and you've got all my commanders calls in a nutshell.

Personally, the only piece of paper that would afford me that pride is my DD214.