Medals(rant)
- Thread starter H46Bubba
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88MPH
Addicted voyeur
You take 2 tests, Promotion Fitness Exam (PFE) (Air Force workings/history) and Skills/Knowledge Test (SKT) (your job) (I think the last one's name is right). They're both possible 100 pts each.
An achievement medal is worth 1pt. Other medals higher ranked than that are worth more.
Ratings on annual performance reports, time in Service, time in grade are pointed. More time=more points.
They add up all like applicants, and however many promotions are needed, they take those top X applicants.
They need 500 promotees, they have 2340 applicants, whatever the score, they take the top 500. It's kinda dumb, but if everyone bombed everything, and everyone was a dumbass, the AF would promote the 500 "best" dumbasses.
Lefty
Well-Known Member
What I am getting at is like in the Army the points system applies to the specific job that they are in...therefore if you make minimum points for your job then you can get promoted...
So in the Air Force, my question is, the promotions they need are obviously in specific jobs at different times...so in essence aren't the AF guys competing against other people in there job class for those spots?
So in the Air Force, my question is, the promotions they need are obviously in specific jobs at different times...so in essence aren't the AF guys competing against other people in there job class for those spots?
88MPH
Addicted voyeur
Yes, crew chiefs vs. crew chiefs, avionics vs. avionics, historians vs. historians, etc.
As usual somebody only has part of the Story ! Lt. Hays deserves her medal. I bet Bubba never took on a whole truck load of Al Quida with only an M-16, and at the same time getting a group of school children to safety. By the way, the Iraqi police fired in the air or ran. Hays' bravery was beyond reproach, and all alone at that. She ended the stand off verbally, as she is fluent in arabic.
Prior to this duty, she also handled the damage control for the USS Cole remotely by radio, is a Naval Academy graduate and one tuff cookie.
What should P.... you off Bubba is that the press is loathe to tell the real story for fear that the American Public may actually have pride in our military. I for one am very proud to have Lt. Hays in uniform.
Prior to this duty, she also handled the damage control for the USS Cole remotely by radio, is a Naval Academy graduate and one tuff cookie.
What should P.... you off Bubba is that the press is loathe to tell the real story for fear that the American Public may actually have pride in our military. I for one am very proud to have Lt. Hays in uniform.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Huh?
The American Public may actually have pride in our military?
I don't know where you spend your free time bud, but every person I have encountered since seperating has told me thank you for my service, and how proud they were to see so many of us (post 9/11 generation) actually provide some public service to this great country.
So, maybe you're in BFE no where land, where there is zero human interaction. Or maybe it's SFO, where everyone hates the military unless it's Fleet Week (only marginal
). Nevertheless. . .the real problem you should be talking about is how this administration has done everything in it's power to control the images of the war, the images of the caskets, the images of AMERICAN flags being handed to family members, the images of children's bodies in the sand, the images of our men and women's blood on the ground.
That's the real problem. Not this opinion of no pride in our military.
Nevertheless, welcome to JC.
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
Hell of a first post, bro.
Huh?
So, maybe you're in BFE no where land, where there is zero human interaction. Or maybe it's SFO, where everyone hates the military unless it's Fleet Week (only marginal
Nevertheless, welcome to JC.
BS ALERT!!! INCOMING BS! BS ALERT!!!
Gawd, I'm so sick of hearing that BS!
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
H46Bubba
Well-Known Member
I had half the "story" because I got the story from the NAVY! Obviously the Navy didn't even post the whole story. If what she did was true...oh I forgot, the Navy doesn't like to promote stories involving female sailors. I find it hard to believe the dear LT Hays was able to abait a whole truck load of Al Quida all by herself, unless it was a truck load of two! A platoon of Marines, or a SEAL team yeah, I can see that scenario. There are more miltary members out there that greatly deserve those medals more than her and all the other officers who get decorated for just doing their jobs.
Now if you had come on here at tactfully and calmly explained the story you'd have my attention, but for someone just joining the site and coming out of the gates fighting...just doesn't give you any credibility here. So f'n what if she's from the Canoe U! That doesn't make you a great officer. There are plenty of OCS, ROTC officers out there that are outstandning officers. Being a Naval Academy grad does not make you the #### or a god! I applaud her efforts on the Cole, but that a different time and situation. I'm sure LT Hays was there and did those things, but by herself....no way!
My dear Sky. . .I <3 you. Note the
Oh Surreal, I wasn't directing my comments at you, as much as rolling my eyes over the perception that the national media has created about San Francisco not liking the military, and the controversy they created when there really was almost no controversy.
I had a conversation on Saturday night with some of the Blues about it. There is one city supervisor in San Francisco who basically does nothing but create controversy at City Hall. Hardly anyone takes him seriously. He wanted to cancel the Blue Angels this year after the tragic accident. The national media of course made a big stink out of this because they can't sell their product without creating controversy. Apparently they neglected ro report the fact nationally that thousands of people immediately wrote in to the local papers and City Hall condemning Mr. Daly for his actions.
I have NEVER met anyone in my 22 years here who doesn't like the Blue Angels - everyone looks forward to it! The mayor of San Francisco and everyone else welcomes the Blue Angels.The media neglected to mention the local miltary personnel who have made statements about how they are constantly stopped on the streets of San Francisco and thanked for their service. This is a town with a very rich military history and the locals overwhelmingly support our military, even if they don't agree with Bush or his war.
GatorFC
Well-Known Member
[thread hijack]
Let me preface this by saying this is not an attack on you, Sky
, but the City by the Bay does deserve that perception somewhat of not liking the military.It's not just that one supervisor who was against the Blues. Didn't the school board vote to kick out all the JROTC programs in the local high schools? Then you have Prop. I, where 59% of voters supported a measure to oppose military recruiting in public schools. And, the one that really sticks in my craw as a former squid was the rejection by the city supervisors of the USS Iowa Battleship. A distinguished lady like that that was crucial in the defense of this country deserved much better treatment.
Maybe the locals overwhelmingly support the military, but they need to elect people that share that sentiment.
[/thread hijack]
back to your normally scheduled medal ranting
[thread hijack]
Let me preface this by saying this is not an attack on you, Sky
It's not just that one supervisor who was against the Blues. Didn't the school board vote to kick out all the JROTC programs in the local high schools? Then you have Prop. I, where 59% of voters supported a measure to oppose military recruiting in public schools. And, the one that really sticks in my craw as a former squid was the rejection by the city supervisors of the USS Iowa Battleship. A distinguished lady like that that was crucial in the defense of this country deserved much better treatment.
Maybe the locals overwhelmingly support the military, but they need to elect people that share that sentiment.
[/thread hijack]
back to your normally scheduled medal ranting
Yeah, there was public outcry about the USS Iowa and the ROTC cuts, but I'm sure that the national media didn't report that. I'm sure that they also don't report on communities in other parts of the US not allowing military recruiting in their high schools either. They like to keep the rest of the country thinking that we're commie land out here, just as they like us to think that everyone in the South is a racist hick.
I don't live right in the City. I live just across the Golden Gate Bridge, but here is my theory on the local politics. The Bay Area tends to lean to the left. Some pockets like Berkeley, and a chunk of San Francisco are more extreme in their views than others, but I honestly think some of the politicians are more left than the average citizen. They often are more moderately left during the election. (imagine that, a politician who is full of BS during an election!) Having said that, there are also pockets of right-leaning population here as well. I would say that a huge chunk of the population here moderately lean left, including myself, with basic values of social equality for all, but fiscal responsibility. As I said, personally, I've never met anyone who does not support those serving in the military. When I looked at the thousands of people lining the shores of the Bay this weekend to cheer on the Blues, I saw people from all walks of life - from rastafarians passing around a joint, twirling, dancing hippie chicks, goths, gays, conservatives, black,whites, Asians, Latinos - just a big ole stew of humanity!
BE19Pilot
Flying a Box
Hello,
The award system hasn't changed much since I retired from the Navy almost 8 years ago. In my Dad's time in the Air Force awards were more scarce, but according to him still an imperfect system. In his time, it was a necessity for a field grade officer to be awarded a DFC, if they hoped to command a squadron or advance to Wing Commander. My Dad was awarded the DFC in Korea and Viet Nam, and also multiple Strike/Flight Air Medals. He said that nothing he did was really beyond what he was trained to do.
In my time in the Navy I was awarded a chest full of "fruit salad" for being there, being on active duty during a certain time period or event and doing what I was trained to do. I have friends that had FIVE NAMs!!!!! This wasn't uncommon either, and it just diminishes the award in my opinion. I remember my cousin telling me just how difficult it was for a Marine to get a NAM much less a COM. And, a Marine with a Combat Action ribbon was held in awe...
Now, like in other generations medals are how we are measured by those that know very little about us or were even present during the action. However, this is what they see when people see a serviceman/woman. To me the real heroes are the one's out there as we sit here on JC that made the ultimate sacrifice for our country.
The award system hasn't changed much since I retired from the Navy almost 8 years ago. In my Dad's time in the Air Force awards were more scarce, but according to him still an imperfect system. In his time, it was a necessity for a field grade officer to be awarded a DFC, if they hoped to command a squadron or advance to Wing Commander. My Dad was awarded the DFC in Korea and Viet Nam, and also multiple Strike/Flight Air Medals. He said that nothing he did was really beyond what he was trained to do.
In my time in the Navy I was awarded a chest full of "fruit salad" for being there, being on active duty during a certain time period or event and doing what I was trained to do. I have friends that had FIVE NAMs!!!!! This wasn't uncommon either, and it just diminishes the award in my opinion. I remember my cousin telling me just how difficult it was for a Marine to get a NAM much less a COM. And, a Marine with a Combat Action ribbon was held in awe...
Now, like in other generations medals are how we are measured by those that know very little about us or were even present during the action. However, this is what they see when people see a serviceman/woman. To me the real heroes are the one's out there as we sit here on JC that made the ultimate sacrifice for our country.
skidz
Well-Known Member
A lot of times when I walk through the hallway that leads from the quarter deck to the commanding officer's office I would look at the pictures of previous co's. The pictures would date back to ww2 or so and you could tell that the number of medals they wore was increasing slowly over the years. I think it's just like anyhing else, the inflation. There is inflation of prices over time, school grades, medals etc...it has a psychological effects because it makes people feel that they are getting better and it boosts the morale.
It used to be that the only people in the AF who wore a specialty badge were pilots, and then they changed it to certain careers, such as missileer, chaplain, medical, etc. But for the most part, a lot of careers lacked specialty badges.
But then in the 90s, they decided that everyone would get a specialty badge, because there were no insignificant careers. So, whereas when I first started, I could go somewhere and people would not know if I was a maintenance guy, a supply guy, or what, I now had a badge that showed I was an acquisition officer. I always thought it was a scarlet letter, because before I could have been assumed to be more operational, it now showed I was in acquisitions, and the associated "civilianized" stigma that it carried.
It's like the Army's decision to give everyone black berets.
I didn't need a badge to feel good about my job, contrary to what the generals say. The thing that made me feel good about my job was when someone said "Thanks man, we couldn't have done it without you."
And with the medals, you allegedly need commendation medals for every PCS to get promoted. If you lacked a commendation medal, allegedly it would hurt your career. However, you couldn't get a commendation medal unless you first had received an achievement medal. So, therefore, your first assignment required that you get an achievement medal, so that you could then receive a commendation medal upon a PCS. About 2 years into my 3 year assignment, my boss tells me I need to get an achievement medal; then I realized that my peers were getting them for savings bond drives?
I think you are right; when the promotions board starts to rate you on the number of medals you received, and therefore you need to get a certain number of medals to be promotable, they lose their mystique. When my boss told me "Figure out what we can give you an achievement medal for," I realized that the award didn't mean very much. After all, I should get it for an achievement, and if my achievement wasn't enough for my boss to say "Wow, you did a great job" and have others really recognize it as going above and beyond, well, that it really wasn't an achievement now was it?
That said, however, I am proud of my service, I'm proud of the things I did, and I did actually earn some medals for real achievements that had huge mission impacts. And I did a lot of outstanding things that I never received a medal for, but that fact doesn't diminish them for me. A medal is nice, but the appreciation of the people who I served is the real reward for me.
Chewie von Nubbins
New Member
Well, I believe that medals/ribbons are a 5 second summary of the person as they walk by you. Sure they are given out like candy, but if a guy walks by you with a nice full chest full ribbon rack, in 5 seconds you can pretty much tell what he has done and went through in his career. Although for the reason that you get them might make people laugh, the fact that a guy can rack up a chest full of them really tells a story. And, almost every story is different. But, in 5 seconds you can get pretty close to making sense of their career just by the ribbon rack that they are wearing. And, I've never seen a 5 bar ribbon rack on a guy that was never in the thick of the action.
Ever walked by a guy with a combat action medal (ribbon), a commendation medal (ribbon) with a "V" in it, and also sporting the purple heart? I love buying those guys a beer and thanking them for their service to our country.
Ever walked by a guy with a combat action medal (ribbon), a commendation medal (ribbon) with a "V" in it, and also sporting the purple heart? I love buying those guys a beer and thanking them for their service to our country.
Chewie von Nubbins
New Member
Yeah, I want to make sure that all of the Vets on the board see what this guy has been saying over in this thread: http://forums.jetcareers.com/changing-careers/51491-big-plan-36-year-old-career-changer-2.html
That is all.