Marines Pushing Navy to Retire C-2 Greyhound

I really want to get my cartel drug rocket into production. It offers direct delivery from supplier to consumer, and I can't think of anything that would attract more money to border security than an anti-missile program.

(The original idea being cargo rockets for COD)
 
si-fly said:
Watch this!

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I can see how that pilot's morning went...

Capt: OK son here's what you're going to TRY this morning....I want you to land this on...
Pilot:
cg_spit-4f54fac-intro.png
 
C-182 flyer said:
We had them operating as our COD during most of a workup cycle back in the Spring. They landed in the LA, either at the stern or right in front of the tower, in between cycles and they folded up very quickly to be stowed, much faster than the helos. Overall, I think everyone was very satisfied with them.
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Interesting. Maybe it will work just fine
 
H46Bubba said:
V-22 is a poor choice as a replacement as the Navy's new COD aircraft.
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V22 is a poor replacement for darned near anything. Kinda like the Pinto: Unsafe at any speed.
But you gotta hand it to the MIC. They've kept this deathtrap in the game for decades. ...
 
Crop Duster said:
V22 is a poor replacement for darned near anything. Kinda like the Pinto: Unsafe at any speed.
But you gotta hand it to the MIC. They've kept this deathtrap in the game for decades. ...
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I thought the AZ accident was not an aircraft issue, but a training issue (settling with power). Were the pilots helicopter or f/w pilots?
 
deadstick said:
I thought the AZ accident was not an aircraft issue, but a training issue (settling with power). Were the pilots helicopter or f/w pilots?
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I'd guess that at that point, the crew were from test and with a helicopter background. As a replacement for the H-46, the vast majority of the initial cadre of pilots were from the -46, and this transition continues to this day (good buddy of mine is about to start soon). In the last few years, they started taking first tour guys, and that training pipeline consists of both multiengine advanced in the TC-12 (super King Air), as well as the full helo syllabus in the TH-57. From what I recall, that accident was a result of pilot error, or at least being the first to find said error. Vortex Ring State....I'm sure the helo types around here can explain much better than I can, but from what I gather, it is potentially harder to recover from in a large quasi-helicopter like the -22.
 
///AMG said:
Vortex Ring State....I'm sure the helo types around here can explain much better than I can, but from what I gather, it is potentially harder to recover from in a large quasi-helicopter like the -22.
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Hmm - interesting. I've never heard settling with power being more difficult to recover from from helo to helo based on size, but there is a different recovery procedure between tandem and single rotors. Essentially in a single forward cyclic gets you flying again, and in a conventional tandem (47, 46) lateral cyclic does it. I'd guess with the 22 forward would be the way to go.

*Disclaimer that the best recovery is prevention.
 
Ian J said:
Hmm - interesting. I've never heard settling with power being more difficult to recover from from helo to helo based on size, but there is a different recovery procedure between tandem and single rotors. Essentially in a single forward cyclic gets you flying again, and in a conventional tandem (47, 46) lateral cyclic does it. I'd guess with the 22 forward would be the way to go.

*Disclaimer that the best recovery is prevention.
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I really have no idea....I'm sure you know better than I
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
Sure it is. If they can pass the cost overruns to someone else, it's great for the Marines. As for going to the V-22 totally, I think its a bad idea. Could I see replacing 30% of the C-2's with the V-22, that might make some sense.
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I'll bite. What is the nature of your disagreement with the V-22? And what is it informed by?
 
This whole conversation neglects the rediculous maintenance costs of the V-22. I suspect this whole thing is a gambit to get the Navy to pitch into depot-level costs. Not a chance in hell....
 
rocketman5150 said:
I'll bite. What is the nature of your disagreement with the V-22? And what is it informed by?
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It's not the V-22. It's the procurement process that encourages the manufacture to try to get one service to convince another to buy an aircraft so that the first service with the aircraft will get them at the origin contract price, rather having to pay more for them, because they underbid the contract. I'm sick of getting fleeced by corporations as a tax payer, simply because the corporations know they can basically do whatever and get away with it.
 
MikeD said:
Can a C-2/E-2 or V-22 fit in the hangar deck?

And if a C-2 breaks onboard the ship, do the resident VAW det mechanics fix it?
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Both the E-2 and C-2 fit and a COD detachment has their own crew to work on the aircraft. However, we do ask for assistance from the E-2 squadron at times, for many things, such as parts, flight deck personnel, etc.
 
Ian J said:
Hmm - interesting. I've never heard settling with power being more difficult to recover from from helo to helo based on size, but there is a different recovery procedure between tandem and single rotors. Essentially in a single forward cyclic gets you flying again, and in a conventional tandem (47, 46) lateral cyclic does it. I'd guess with the 22 forward would be the way to go.

*Disclaimer that the best recovery is prevention.
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I guess with the tandem rotors, the only clean air is at 3 and 9 o'clock. Your "guess" for the 22 seems logical.
 
Can the V-22 do the job, sure it can. Can it do a better job than the C-2? Probably not. Will it be more expensive? Damn straight, in every category! Will it have the safety record of the C-2? No chance in hell.

The C-2 entered the fleet in the sixties, continues to get the job done and is well integrated in carrier operations.

While the V-22 can do things a C-2 can't, the Navy doesn't need any expanded COD capability.

There's a donkey-load of politics at play here. Don't expect anybody to put up much of a fight to retain the C-2, exclusively. As long as Growler SuperBug, and F-35x numbers aren't threatened, don't expect a former CAG Admiral to stick his neck out very far on this one.
 
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MikeD said:
Is HSC, now what HC has been renamed to, or something like that?
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Yes. All HC squadrons became HSC. Eventually all HS squadrons will become HSC when they transition to the MH-60S . All HSL squadrons will transition to HSM when they receiver their MH-60Rs. In the H-46 we could carry three time tthe cargo and a heavier external load. We could Vertrep Harrier engines in their cans as long as we were at half a bag of gas. MH-60 can't. They have had to use the V-22's to transfer AV-8B engines from the supply ships to the LHA/LHDs. It looks very awkward and time consuming when they do it!
 
H46Bubba said:
Yes. All HC squadrons became HSC. Eventually all HS squadrons will become HSC when they transition to the MH-60S . All HSL squadrons will transition to HSM when they receiver their MH-60Rs. In the H-46 we could carry three time tthe cargo and a heavier external load. We could Vertrep Harrier engines in their cans as long as we were at half a bag of gas. MH-60 can't. They have had to use the V-22's to transfer AV-8B engines from the supply ships to the LHA/LHDs. It looks very awkward and time consuming when they do it!
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One of our supervisors in my air branch is a former HC UH-46 pilot. He gets pissed because whenever someone asks him what he flew in the military (not yet knowing his branch) and he says -46s, they automatically assume he was a Marine. They never assume he was a Navy -46 driver. He said that life as an HC pilot aboard an AOE or AE or whatever ships the -46s were on was a hidden gem life, what with their being civilian crewed ships mostly. I guess some ships have civilian Pumas doing VERTREP now.

Yeah, there's been B-model as well as F-model SH-60s showing up at the boneyard for storage fairly regularly.

I see what you wrote above with the transitions, what then is HCS? Is it the same as HSC?
 
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