cool92092
Well-Known Member
You logged taxi time without taking off? Someone let me know if that's OK because that way I can easily get 1500 hours quick fast!
Malfunction in rental
- Thread starter PGT
- Start date
You logged taxi time without taking off? Someone let me know if that's OK because that way I can easily get 1500 hours quick fast!
Like I said before, just charge you the closest fixed-gear rate.
TUCKnTRUCK
That guy
He had intent to fly, so yes, he may log it. No you can not just go taxi around the field with the intention of building hours.
Well, you must be having problems with reading comprehension because no where in any way did I state or imply that it was win/win/win
.
Yes, the landing is relevant because his "SE Currency" was about to expire. The landing helps to delay that. Plus, a retractable gear aircraft isn't required for single engine currency. If that's all he wanted and the argument was made that he didn't get three landings, the FBO could argue that he should have just rented a warrior, 152 or whatever their fixed single trainer is. The landing helps...win.
He handled an abnormal and possible emergency situation without bending metal or hurting anyone. That's good for the experience bucket. There's no way you can have a loss there. That's win in itself.
He's now got a story to tell. That's good for when he gets his CFI and has students to teach or an interview when he gets the "tell me about a time when..." questions. It goes with experience. It's another win.
He's got some more flight time, which counts towards the ATP, which is a big deal. Particularly if he wants to do any professional flying. Again. Win.
So yes...I think the FBO would be justified in charging for the time per the rental agreement (depending on what that says). It's a win/win/win for the OP, why should the FBO be off the hook? If you're going to argue that they shouldn't be renting broken planes, then the rental rates just went through the roof to pay for mx every time a plane comes down. Just taxi right up to the mx hangar, they're going to do an annual on it every 1.2 so they can swing the gear, do some inspections and make sure they know they're renting a not-broken plane. No one wants that.
Plus, you have to realize...sometimes stuff just breaks. No one can explain it. It just happens. You deal and move on.
-mini
cool92092
Well-Known Member
Did his ac come to rest after landing? Is there an LOI somewhere that I don't know about? I know there must be intent to fly but my understanding is that there must also be takeoff and landing to constitute flight.
granlistillo
Well-Known Member
In the 121 world taxi out with intention of flight is flight time. Now I dont have my FOM with me anymore, but yeah that is the way it is. Why would you rack up 1500 taxiing? You certainly wouldn't meet the other requirements for an ATP.
drunkenbeagle
Gang Member
When I have a rental car and something doesn't work (radio, whatever), Hertz comps the price of the rental. How should renting an airplane be any different? Cost of doing business. It isn't really costing the FBO much anyway. How much gas did you really burn being in the air for 5 minutes?
cool92092
Well-Known Member
In the 121 world taxi out with intention of flight is flight time. Now I dont have my FOM with me anymore, but yeah that is the way it is. Why would you rack up 1500 taxiing? You certainly wouldn't meet the other requirements for an ATP.
maybe if you could taxi along the highway to the next airport (XC), or that new car to plane conversion can count as flight time.
I don't know about the 121 world but from the reg I posted above it seems shady. Personally I don't really see the relevance of logging the .5 it took you to taxi do a run up and come back.
Mark815
Well-Known Member
Well my reading comp must be pretty bad because I thought you said it was a win/win/win....
Even after all of that, the only thing i can agree with is that he logged a landing and it went into his logbook. You still seem to be forgetting about business. The renter returned the airplane ASAP when a problem was discovered. Doesn't matter if he got a landing, doesn't matter if he has a story to tell to students down the road. The fact is that he intended to rent the airplane for XYZ reason, and he couldn't accomplish that, in fact he didn't even make it out of the patch it seems like. I would not be expected to be billed for something like that. Get the airplane fixed and I'll def come back and rent from them.
If I rented an airplane to go to a lunch spot, and I barely got out of the patch because something has happened, I would not expect a bill for that. I didn't plan on wasting $50 on .4 of flight time dealing with an aircraft issue because of mx. I def realize stuff breaks. The first day on the road with this job i had an engine failure. I had to deal with it, and I've since moved on. If i was a paying customer though, I wouldn't be happy. I'd deal with it, but I wouldn't pay for faulty equipment. If the OP continued to his destination and back, and THAN complained, I'd laugh at him all the way out the door, but I don't believe that this is an unreasonable request seeing how he handled the situation.
Notice the lack of a period? The sentence was complete with the quote of you stating "just because...".
Try again.
-mini
If you report it prior to taking the car, sure. Once you leave the lot, that's it. That's why you walk around and sit in the car with the person at the lot writing down all of the irregularities, dings, dents and equipment that wasn't working.
-mini
drunkenbeagle
Gang Member
Never. I hop in the car and go. It's usually dark and late, the car could be missing a wheel and I wouldn't notice until I got to my hotel.
I like National's Emerald Isle more - pick whatever car you want. But the company travel policy is Hertz only
With Hertz you've gotta walk to the car, notice that it is something I don't like, walk back to the Gold desk, and beg for something else. Too much work.
Douglas
Old School KSUX
You may expect to not pay, but paying for this is standard.
I suggest reviewing your FBOs policy.
If you don't like it, walk. Might be a far walk, as said this is standard.
ILSstud
Well-Known Member
They are more than welcome to bill it....but then I will be sure to call up AMEX or VISA...dispute the charges, and have them take care of it. End of story. I agree with the others on here that say I am not paying for 40 dollars of realizing my rented airplane is defective.
TUCKnTRUCK
That guy
I am sure there are lots of different letters of investigation floating around... Usually given to a pilot who messes up. Anways, the interpretation I got from the pwm fsdo as we were doing taxi only lessons for mechanics, was that the FAA sticks to the widely used chalks out to chalks in theory, so long as you prepare for the flight, and fully intend to fly. Also in that letter was the answer to my question about logging pic time in a Canadian registered airplane with a us ticket in us airspace ... Off topic, but from this perspective, if anything had happened during that taxi out, or in, you have been just as culpable as if you had flown. Therefore you must propperly preflight, plan, and exercise judgement the same way you would if you were flying. All of this counts as experience.
Log your flight time as you see fit, in a few years that .5 won't seem like much of anything. When that .5 costs you 80 bucks, it sucks though.
On a side note, I've got lots of .2 flight durations. We had a float plane that was kept in a pond that was to small for takeoff with passengers, so we would take off and fly 1/4 mile over to a public dock on the lake and get them there. Each ride equaled 2 flights of .2... Certainly looks fischy, but nobody ever asked me.
I'd suggest a hobby you can afford.
I'd also be surprised if the rental agreement doesn't have language stating how billing will be completed (using aircraft's hobbs/flight hour recorder and/or recording tach). That language, when presented to AMEX/Visa along with your signature on the document will defeat your dispute.
If it doesn't, well I know of at least one FBO that needs a new manager!
FSDOs don't have legal authority to interpret regulations.
Just so we're all on the same page.
-mini
TUCKnTRUCK
That guy
No, but I would assume that holding a letter from them with that clarification would in turn cause the FAA to go lightly if that was in fact, not the case. I've also never heard of any being run over by the FAA for logging a flight that gate, or ramp returned.
Honestly, if they are going after you for what's in your log book, odds are they are hunting, and they don't normally go hunting without a good reason.
ILSstud
Well-Known Member
Last I checked...I can afford my flying habit...thanks for trying to be my financial advisor though.
Mark815
Well-Known Member
Of course every FBO has a rental agreement, but that doesn't mean it's set in stone. Over the past 3 1\2 years I've worked as a lineguy at different FBOs with flight schools, and more recently a CFI, and in that time I've never seen anyone have to pay for an airplane that is defective, only if it was returned in a reasonable amount of time, I.E. it wasn't flown around and enjoyed before returning it. I've witnessed it first hand numerous times, and the chief pilot or manager has always said, they'd rather eat up the .3 or .4 than lose a customer that will come back and complete a rating. I don't believe this has anything to do with cheaping out or trying to get out of paying, this is just good buisniess IMO. Like a lot of people on here, I myself have spent thousands on aircraft rental, so another $40 isn't gonna put me under, but when you want a product and it's defective, than I don't agree with having to pay in that situation.