Male Chauvinism?
- Thread starter TheresaPilot
- Start date
The Gardener
Terrafirma Phobic
what makes you think it has anything to do with Chauvinism? I didn't catch anything in your original post to indicate that is what is was.
Why were you flying with him instead of his regular instructor?
Had I shown up for my 3rd lesson to find a different instructor I probably would have been a bit put off.
This issue might work itself out though, if he isn't happy with the arrangement he might not be back.
Why were you flying with him instead of his regular instructor?
Had I shown up for my 3rd lesson to find a different instructor I probably would have been a bit put off.
This issue might work itself out though, if he isn't happy with the arrangement he might not be back.
Cessna414JJB
Unknown Member
Jennifer?
Apology in advance - I had to!
TheresaPilot
Well-Known Member
TheresaPilot
Well-Known Member
Did it work? :rawk:
TheresaPilot
Well-Known Member
I am pretty cool about stuff like that too, stuff doesn't normally bother me like this. This guy just got under my skin.
The Gardener
Terrafirma Phobic
It is hard to figure out what a student has going on by the 3rd lesson. I would chock this one up to experience and put it behind you. Who knows what his issue is but it sounds like you did what you could. Its good that your Chief also sided with you.
Good luck!
Good luck!
Cessna414JJB
Unknown Member
Good stuff. Getting under your skin beats getting into your pants. From your prespective. I found female CFI's pants to be extremely hard to get into...And then there was the very sweet one who had a.... girlfriend...:cwm27:
Not that I ever tried, though.
XLR99
Well-Known Member
Just ignore it, be thankful you don't have to work with him every day, and move on. Could be chauvinism, could be him just thinking he can get his way all the time just like in the OR. As CFIs I think it behooves us to be very clear with Type A career go-getter types, and watch very carefully for hazardous attitudes. They're used to getting what they want, when they want, regardless of who it affects, and that has been shown to kill you in an airplane.
My day job is working in an OR, and from first hand experience, there are some who scream, throw things, stomp, and generally act in such a way that would cause them to get their a$$ kicked if they were in public.
I think the issue of hours and experience would be VERY relevant for him-a staff surgeon would clearly understand the relative roles of himself vs a new resident on day 1. He's learning a new skill that could kill him, and needs to respect the instructor just as he would a proctor helping him learn a new procedure.
And by the way, +1 for the boss supporting you!
As an aside, I'm working with a surgeon on his IR in a Bonanza, and he's totally the antithesis of this guy, despite flying a fork-tailed doctor killer-I told a few people in the OR about the nickname, and they use it to give him crap and get him wound up. Good times.
My day job is working in an OR, and from first hand experience, there are some who scream, throw things, stomp, and generally act in such a way that would cause them to get their a$$ kicked if they were in public.
I think the issue of hours and experience would be VERY relevant for him-a staff surgeon would clearly understand the relative roles of himself vs a new resident on day 1. He's learning a new skill that could kill him, and needs to respect the instructor just as he would a proctor helping him learn a new procedure.
And by the way, +1 for the boss supporting you!
As an aside, I'm working with a surgeon on his IR in a Bonanza, and he's totally the antithesis of this guy, despite flying a fork-tailed doctor killer-I told a few people in the OR about the nickname, and they use it to give him crap and get him wound up. Good times.
Qgar
New Member
On second thought and after reading some of these posts, I agree that it doesn't necessarily have to be "chauvinism." Could very well be "power" issues. There are many people in life, not only doctors, who just CAN'T relinquish control to ANYONE. :banghead:
I see it everyday in my job. The "Joe Six-Pack" and "Aunt Bessie" passenger that TonyW so lovingly describes are actually the best passengers. They don't fly much and don't have a problem (for the most part) with going along with the rules we need to enforce (as per the FAA). The seasoned business traveler, (Mr. OR Ms. "I'm a Platinum Elite One-Pass Member") are usually the most obnoxious to deal with.
If Doctor • can't or won't abide by your method of teaching and try to actually learn something--I would think you're well within your rights to end the lesson and dump his sorry-ass off back at the school.
I see it everyday in my job. The "Joe Six-Pack" and "Aunt Bessie" passenger that TonyW so lovingly describes are actually the best passengers. They don't fly much and don't have a problem (for the most part) with going along with the rules we need to enforce (as per the FAA). The seasoned business traveler, (Mr. OR Ms. "I'm a Platinum Elite One-Pass Member") are usually the most obnoxious to deal with.
If Doctor • can't or won't abide by your method of teaching and try to actually learn something--I would think you're well within your rights to end the lesson and dump his sorry-ass off back at the school.
Crockrocket94
Well-Known Member
I hear ya TP on this one. It reminds me of one of my old "hand-me-down" students that just had a bad attitude.
I am a little more in your face if I get a bad vibe. If there is any tension, I will/would not fly. There is NO room for that in the cockpit.
I had a student a while back that had an attitude problem that just pushed my buttons. Basically, the time that send me over the brink was the time that he showed up 30 minutes late and when I queried him over his tardiness he was like "oh well". I didnt receive a phone call, or anything. The thing was he didnt care. AND THAT PISSED ME OFF. I told him that he was not my only student and now the person after you is going to be pushed back. That is not fair to them. HE got offended when I said this and started pouting... yes, pouting. Well, I went to do some paperwork and make sure the morning and next morning schedules were all in a row and he came in abooout 20 to 30 minutes later all dejected. I asked him is he ok, to which he replied "NO I am not". RIGHT THERE, long story short, is when I gave him my respect and on time lecture. Marched him to the Assist. Cheifs office, told him I would not fly with this person because we have a personality conflict and if he wants to fly here he can fly withsome else.
At any rate, you will meet people that will blow your mind on how they act. They really truly feel that they are better than people and that rules do not apply to them. They can do what they want. I was at a 141 flightschool where people moved there to FLY. This wasnt an fbo out in a grass strip. And that kind of attitude will not fly in this business.
Put your foot down. You should enjoy your job, if flying with someone makes you uncomfortable then drop them like a bad habit. I think you did the right thing, although I probably would have been more pissed and confronted the persons actions to his face. If someone slams down a headset, they are "not just having a bad day". They are not right to fly. I am sorry, but people like that shouldnt fly.
1- Did not listen to you in the air.
2- Just said "lets go back to the airport"
3- Didnt listen to you on landing
4- Angrily slams your Flight Schools headset (NOT HIS FRICKIN PROPERTY) down and breaks it?
5- Did he pay you?
Sounds like a bad recipe to me.
I feel for ya.
Woah, rant time.... sorry.
I am a little more in your face if I get a bad vibe. If there is any tension, I will/would not fly. There is NO room for that in the cockpit.
I had a student a while back that had an attitude problem that just pushed my buttons. Basically, the time that send me over the brink was the time that he showed up 30 minutes late and when I queried him over his tardiness he was like "oh well". I didnt receive a phone call, or anything. The thing was he didnt care. AND THAT PISSED ME OFF. I told him that he was not my only student and now the person after you is going to be pushed back. That is not fair to them. HE got offended when I said this and started pouting... yes, pouting. Well, I went to do some paperwork and make sure the morning and next morning schedules were all in a row and he came in abooout 20 to 30 minutes later all dejected. I asked him is he ok, to which he replied "NO I am not". RIGHT THERE, long story short, is when I gave him my respect and on time lecture. Marched him to the Assist. Cheifs office, told him I would not fly with this person because we have a personality conflict and if he wants to fly here he can fly withsome else.
At any rate, you will meet people that will blow your mind on how they act. They really truly feel that they are better than people and that rules do not apply to them. They can do what they want. I was at a 141 flightschool where people moved there to FLY. This wasnt an fbo out in a grass strip. And that kind of attitude will not fly in this business.
Put your foot down. You should enjoy your job, if flying with someone makes you uncomfortable then drop them like a bad habit. I think you did the right thing, although I probably would have been more pissed and confronted the persons actions to his face. If someone slams down a headset, they are "not just having a bad day". They are not right to fly. I am sorry, but people like that shouldnt fly.
1- Did not listen to you in the air.
2- Just said "lets go back to the airport"
3- Didnt listen to you on landing
4- Angrily slams your Flight Schools headset (NOT HIS FRICKIN PROPERTY) down and breaks it?
5- Did he pay you?
Sounds like a bad recipe to me.
I feel for ya.
Woah, rant time.... sorry.
BrewMaster
Well-Known Member
My take:
I wouldn't just jump to conclusions and assume it's chauvinism. That's a pretty strong card to play unless you are really sure. Jessie Spano can help you determine that
He certainly doesn't deserve the opportunity to have you instruct him, so just brush that dirt off your shoulder. I have a very talented(or so I'm told) neurosurgeon student. After about 80+ hours with 6 different instructors he can't even do steep turns or land the plane on his own, and I literally feel like every word I say goes in one ear and out the other. I think it has a lot to do with the position and respect/attitude they get from everyone else that it is hard for them to accept the fact that they don't know what you know. Now, with that said it isn't entirely out of the question to assume he may be a little chauvinistic/macho with a dash of prick and garnished with a side of self-righteousness, but you will probably never know.
I wouldn't sweat it too much, just keep ticking and don't let him make you think we(manly, studley men) are all like that. I had a female Instrument instructor who I had a blast flying with, so I'm sure that guy is one of a small few who act that way towards women.
Keep on keepin' on!!:rawk:
I wouldn't just jump to conclusions and assume it's chauvinism. That's a pretty strong card to play unless you are really sure. Jessie Spano can help you determine that
He certainly doesn't deserve the opportunity to have you instruct him, so just brush that dirt off your shoulder. I have a very talented(or so I'm told) neurosurgeon student. After about 80+ hours with 6 different instructors he can't even do steep turns or land the plane on his own, and I literally feel like every word I say goes in one ear and out the other. I think it has a lot to do with the position and respect/attitude they get from everyone else that it is hard for them to accept the fact that they don't know what you know. Now, with that said it isn't entirely out of the question to assume he may be a little chauvinistic/macho with a dash of prick and garnished with a side of self-righteousness, but you will probably never know.
I wouldn't sweat it too much, just keep ticking and don't let him make you think we(manly, studley men) are all like that. I had a female Instrument instructor who I had a blast flying with, so I'm sure that guy is one of a small few who act that way towards women.
Keep on keepin' on!!:rawk:
BrewMaster
Well-Known Member
So is Supercalifragilisticexpyallidocious.......
moxiepilot
Well-Known Member
honestly, if the chief hasn't reprimanded you for some *action*, then I wouldn't think twice about it. You'l probably never fly again and forget it in a few weeks.
Sometimes jerks are part of the job.
Let's say, for sake of argument, that you were at fault for everything on this flight.
Does it really matter in the big picture? Probably not. You'd have a lot of personal things to work on, but overall you'd still be doing your job to the best of your ability.
That's all we can ask of ourselves sometimes
Sometimes jerks are part of the job.
Let's say, for sake of argument, that you were at fault for everything on this flight.
Does it really matter in the big picture? Probably not. You'd have a lot of personal things to work on, but overall you'd still be doing your job to the best of your ability.
That's all we can ask of ourselves sometimes
nosehair
Well-Known Member
OK, here's some really straight stuff from an Oldster to a Youngster.
Drop the "Chauvanistic" label from your head. I'm a guy and I'm a lifetime flight instructor and I've dealt with many people (men) with THe holier Than Thou Attitude. It's a part of the deal. And it's really your own interpretation in your own head, and your responsibility to overcome negative reactions.
Now that may seem harsh, but you know it's true. The main point I am trying to make is to not let "labels", or pre-concieved types, get under your skin. This will cause you to be a bad instructor.
TheresaPilot
Well-Known Member
I know that this guy is rather rare to find these days. I enjoy manly, studly men, normally.
I know MikeCWeb is gonna make some remark to that one. :laff:Cessna414JJB - Figures :laff:
Q - I realize that now, that it definately has to do with relinquishing the authority to a woman, not neccessarily chauvinism. I couldn't really find the right word though, I think.
Crockrocket -
1 - Yep
2 - Yes
3 - Yep
4 - Exactly, but I was able to fix it. It's a crappy pair of Red Barons, but still. Not his property.
5 - They took the instructor charge off of his charge card, but I will be getting paid for my time. Especially considering I drove out to the airport simply to fly with this guy for the day.
nosehair - I had no problems flying with him with the attitude he had from the start, that does not change my teaching techniques in any way. The only difference that I had in the plane as opposed to flying with my students that I enjoy flying with, is that I didn't try to be his friend in the plane, I was just being an instrcutor to the guy for the day.
matt - I was tryingt o figure out what they're called when they're doctors--I tried using my Grey's Anatomy background for that, but couldn't think of it. Lol.
Thanks everyone, I understand that this isn't going to be an everyday occurance and am very interested to see what my Chief CFI has to say today. He has a meeting with the owner to discuss a list of items (and this was added to the list--what to do about the student and his attitude). I'll keep y'all posted.
