Malaysian 777 Plane Crashes in Ukraine

Mark815 said:
I'm disgusted that the world hasn't taken action to secure that site. ... I'm the last person who would want to see people getting deployed, but this is one time where I want to see boots on the ground (doesn't have to be US). Get REAL soldiers out there and protect that site. What's going to happen? Is Putin going to start killing NATO soldiers that are trying to secure a crash site?
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So you're willing to let Warsaw pact powers coming into the US and "secure the site" of a crash site here that involves victims from other countries?
 
ATN_Pilot said:
The feeling is mutual.
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Sorry Todd, repeating variations of what you've read on the internet from the comfort of your home in Georgia is not the same as actually working in these same areas. You don't understand my post because you simply have no basis of experience to understand it. But, I know digging in and stubbornly holding your ground is your MO, so I'll leave you be.
 
tomokc said:
So you're willing to let Warsaw pact powers coming into the US and "secure the site" of a crash site here that involves victims from other countries?
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You clearly misunderstood my statement.

If we were destroying evidence and looting bodies while the government looked the other way, yes absolutely.
 
dasleben said:
Sorry Todd, repeating variations of what you've read on the internet from the comfort of your home in Georgia is not the same as actually working in these same areas. You don't understand my post because you simply have no basis of experience to understand it. But, I know digging in and stubbornly holding your ground is your MO, so I'll leave you be.
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You pretending to know jack about foreign policy just because you fly airplanes in foreign airspace is even more comical than Sarah Palin claiming she knows something about it just because she can see Russian from Alaska.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
You pretending to know jack about foreign policy just because you fly airplanes in foreign airspace is even more comical than Sarah Palin claiming she knows something about it just because she can see Russian from Alaska.
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I haven't discussed foreign policy at all in this thread, and again, that's why you're missing the entire point of what we're saying: There's nothing personal about this to you. This crash is just an abstract for you; an opportunity to be a talking head, and repeat what you've read and watched elsewhere.

That's the experience you lack, and why you won't understand when other posters and I get annoyed with all this geopolitical drivel we've all heard before in this thread.
 
dasleben said:
I haven't discussed foreign policy at all in this thread, and again, that's why you're missing the entire point of what we're saying: There's nothing personal about this to you. This crash is just an abstract for you; an opportunity to be a talking head, and repeat what you've read and watched elsewhere.

That's the experience you lack, and why you won't understand when other posters and I get annoyed with all this geopolitical drivel we've all heard before in this thread.
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I get what you're saying about being a talking head by repeating what he reads and hears. BUT SO WHAT! That's how 98% of the general public forms their views and opinions on things, because it's our only way to do so. It just seems like people aren't allowed to have an opinion, or speak about anything unless they are personally involved in it. While it does makes ones opinion a little more credible, it doesn't disallow forming an opinion on something, and publicly speaking about it.

It honestly seems like a jab at not likeing(and respecting) someone else's point of view by trying to discredit their view with cheap shots and slams.

Heck, look at the F35 thread and the crap I took in that [thread] by basing my point of view off of the available information the public has. If you have something to say, and educate, then say it. But the drivel between posters is getting really old. We are all allowed to disagree with one another, but the being a dick about it is tiring.
 
Mark815 said:
You clearly misunderstood my statement.

If we were destroying evidence and looting bodies while the government looked the other way, yes absolutely.
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Regardless of the circumstances, you were describing a scenario where a portion of a sovereign nation would be occupied by a force in order to secure a crash site and commence an investigation. What nations have requested that, what nations have agreed to provide the forces, and what do you think the response would be from the Ukrainians, the Russians or the rebels?

If you want to escalate a regional conflict into a global one, that's a good way to do it.
 
tomokc said:
Regardless of the circumstances, you were describing a scenario where a portion of a sovereign nation would be occupied by a force in order to secure a crash site and commence an investigation. What nations have requested that, what nations have agreed to provide the forces, and what do you think the response would be from the Ukrainians, the Russians or the rebels?

If you want to escalate a regional conflict into a global one, that's a good way to do it.
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I would hope the Ukrainians would be on board with it.

With the events that are occurring right now, all it seems to say is that shooting down civilian airplanes, tampering with the crash site, and destroying evidence is totally okay. If said sovereign nation can't get it's government to control a group of thugs that are holding a crime scene hostage, then yes, lets start a global conflict and get more capable forces there in order to control the situation properly.

If it had been a US airliner that had been shot down, and they were looting bodies, hauling off with the black boxes, which are now "missing", and tampering, removing and destroying bits of the plane (evidence), I'm sure many people here would be singing a different tune.
 
Crop Duster said:
Suddenly, I feel like I am right now. ;)
Yes, several times. I get the impression you took my comment to be minimizing the realities of combat. Alternatively, perhaps that I was talking out my ass. Neither was my intent. (My intent, primarily, was to mess with @Boris Badenov .) But since you called me out, I am, perhaps, indicating that those realities of war are not simply acute ones and that we might do well to, er... think about them. By and large, the mind gets us into fights and the mind determines the outcome. In my experience, war fighters would generally rather not be called into combat. But they are because strategically, zeitgeists are manufactured to allow and encourage support for entry into wars. Zeitgeist and groupthink put soldiers and treasure at risk. Once put there, tactically, the state of mind of the combatants is probably the single greatest determinant of outcome. I don't think I am telling you anything you don't know. :)
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Smug, snarky and a bit self-indulgent I see. So your answer is no. Not much more needs to be said.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
You pretending to know jack about foreign policy just because you fly airplanes in foreign airspace is even more comical than Sarah Palin claiming she knows something about it just because she can see Russian from Alaska.
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Actually, Sarah Palin never said that, not exactly anyway.
 
Mark815 said:
I would hope the Ukrainians would be on board with it.

With the events that are occurring right now, all it seems to say is that shooting down civilian airplanes, tampering with the crash site, and destroying evidence is totally okay. If said sovereign nation can't get it's government to control a group of thugs that are holding a crime scene hostage, then yes, lets start a global conflict and get more capable forces there in order to control the situation properly.

If it had been a US airliner that had been shot down, and they were looting bodies, hauling off with the black boxes, which are now "missing", and tampering, removing and destroying bits of the plane (evidence), I'm sure many people here would be singing a different tune.
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The difference is it WASN'T a US airline. It's sad to see what's happening, but we have no place going in there. Period. Let Europe put their big boy pants on and take care of this mess.
 
For the love of Bo "The Bandit" Darville could @ATN_Pilot and @dasleben just hug it out?

Smokey_and_the_Bandit.jpg


Best cotton pickin' dag gum movie on Earth.

He can bring us together.
 
tonyw said:
Just in case you thought a lot of the people associated with the shoot down aren't scum.

http://mashable.com/2014/07/21/scammers-mh17-victims/
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This is utterly disgusting. Talk about adding insult to injury. Can't believe people have absolutely no respect, even for the dead. When did we get here...., oh am I deluding myself into thinking people were not always this brazenly bad? I really feel sorry for the victims families. They certainly don't deserve this. Oh, and important evidence has been tampered with at the crash site too. Pure scum!
 
Derg said:
I don't know. This might ruffle some feathers, which is fine, but it seems like Putin more or less armed the Ukranian equivalent of "birthers" and "sovereigns" with some advanced weaponry
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It's worse than that, it would be like those crazies in Quebec who keep trying to separate from the maple syrup part of Canada getting surface to air missiles.

Oh and this just in:

After hours of meetings with the Malaysian delegation in the eastern Ukraine city of Donetsk on Monday night, rebel leader Alexander Borodai produced the black boxes, handing them to the Malaysians in a bizarre late-night press conference.
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http://mashable.com/2014/07/21/ukraine-mh17-bodies-train-departs-black-boxes/
 
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