Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Those who are trying to gain land in the name of God, yes. The ISIS movement counts.
Malaysian 777 Plane Crashes in Ukraine
- Thread starter Skåning
- Start date
Those who are trying to gain land in the name of God, yes. The ISIS movement counts.
Goonie
Never say die
Many years ago some old dudes drew lines in the sand. many years before that some old dudes came up with superstitions. Today, because of them, we are having a religious penis measuring contest and blowing airliners out of the sky. Awesome stuff...
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Meh, fact remains land has ALWAYS been won with military might. More resourceful, more powerful, more well-equipped armies have always won. Look at the empires of the past, Roman empire, Byzantine empire, etc.
It's the same thing today.
Screaming_Emu
Well-Known Member
I think pride for things that you haven't accomplished yourself is one of the most destructive emotions on the planet. We have all been born into our own situations through no action of our own. Believing that you're somehow better than others because of it, just doesn't make any sense to me...and it leads to crap like what is going on in the Middle East...and pretty much every other large scale conflict.
tonyw
Well-Known Member
My solution? Give them both nukes -- just enough to wipe out the other side.
Mutually assured destruction works well to keep the militaristic types in check. See United States-Soviet Union/Russia, 1950s to present. Also see India-Pakistan, 1998 to present.
tonyw
Well-Known Member
Yeah, that's what gets me about "I'm proud to be [name your country]."
Unless you are a naturalized citizen, the only thing you did to become that way was the same thing animals have been doing for hundreds of millions of years. You crawled out of a birth canal. Congratulations! You are now [name your country]! You did so much to accomplish that.
Be proud of something that you actually did on your own. Being born in a specific country is not something to be proud of. Hell, your mother did most of the work and when you got out, you cried like a little bitch.
Goonie
Never say die
Reminds me of a famous George Carlin bit....
I saw a slogan on a guys car that said "Proud to be an American" and I thought "What the • does that mean?"
I'm fully Irish, and when I was a kid I would go to the St Patrick's Day parade and they sold a button that said "Proud to be Irish", but I knew that on Columbus day they sold the same button only it said "Proud to be Italian", then came Black Pride, and Puerto Rican Pride. And I could never understand national or ethnic pride, because to me Pride should be reserved for something you achieve on your own.
Being Irish isn't a skill, it's a • genetic accident.
You wouldn't be proud to be 5'11". You wouldn't be proud to have a pre-disposition for colon cancer.
And then he gets to the entire "God Bless America" thang.
I saw a slogan on a guys car that said "Proud to be an American" and I thought "What the • does that mean?"
I'm fully Irish, and when I was a kid I would go to the St Patrick's Day parade and they sold a button that said "Proud to be Irish", but I knew that on Columbus day they sold the same button only it said "Proud to be Italian", then came Black Pride, and Puerto Rican Pride. And I could never understand national or ethnic pride, because to me Pride should be reserved for something you achieve on your own.
Being Irish isn't a skill, it's a • genetic accident.
You wouldn't be proud to be 5'11". You wouldn't be proud to have a pre-disposition for colon cancer.
And then he gets to the entire "God Bless America" thang.
Here's another slogan you run into all the time, "God Bless America".
Once again, respectfully, I say to myself "What the • Does that Mean?"
"God Bless America?" Is that a request? Is tht a demand? Is that a suggestion? Politicians say it at the end of every speech, as if it was some sort of verbal tick that they can't get rid of.
I guess they figure if they leave it out someone is going to think they're "bad Americans". Let me tell you something folks, God Does not give a flying • about America, ok? He doesn't care. He never cared about this country. He never has. He never will. He doesn't care about this country any more than he cares about Mongolia, Transylvania, Pittsburgh, the Suez Canal or the North Pole. He simply doesn't care, ok.
Listen, there are 200 countries in the world, do these people honestly think God is sitting around picking out his favorites?
Why would he do that?
Why would God have a favorite country? And why would it be America of all the countries? Because we have the most money? Because he likes our national anthem? Maybe it's because he heard we have 18 delicious flavours of classic Rice-O-Ronie?
It's Delusional Thinking.
If these people believe in God, they must have heard that God Loves Everyone, and he loves them equally. So why would these people ask God to do something that goes against his own teaching? Maybe they ought to check with that Jesus fella. They're always talking about "What would Jesus do"?
Once again, respectfully, I say to myself "What the • Does that Mean?"
"God Bless America?" Is that a request? Is tht a demand? Is that a suggestion? Politicians say it at the end of every speech, as if it was some sort of verbal tick that they can't get rid of.
I guess they figure if they leave it out someone is going to think they're "bad Americans". Let me tell you something folks, God Does not give a flying • about America, ok? He doesn't care. He never cared about this country. He never has. He never will. He doesn't care about this country any more than he cares about Mongolia, Transylvania, Pittsburgh, the Suez Canal or the North Pole. He simply doesn't care, ok.
Listen, there are 200 countries in the world, do these people honestly think God is sitting around picking out his favorites?
Why would he do that?
Why would God have a favorite country? And why would it be America of all the countries? Because we have the most money? Because he likes our national anthem? Maybe it's because he heard we have 18 delicious flavours of classic Rice-O-Ronie?
It's Delusional Thinking.
If these people believe in God, they must have heard that God Loves Everyone, and he loves them equally. So why would these people ask God to do something that goes against his own teaching? Maybe they ought to check with that Jesus fella. They're always talking about "What would Jesus do"?
Screaming_Emu
Well-Known Member
I didn't even crawl out, I was pushed!
I'm happy that I was born an American, but I also recognize that I did nothing to actually deserve that, nor have I really done anything to really contribute.
On the other hand, I'm proud of my career choice and the effort that I have put forth to achieve that.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
In my experience dispatching internationally Asian airlines (including their SIA neighbor) fly over those hotspots (although I don't know if Iraq/Iran was a warzone in 04-05 which is what I'm using for an example) without blinking because they keep their noses out of that crap. If the Jetstream hit Israel, Iraq, Iran, and Kashmir that's where the plane went and no one blinked. Not a lot of tanks and small arms fire at 37,000ft.
ChasenSFO
hen teaser
Because it happened. Those people are dead, it's a horrible tragedy, and that is the scope of it. Horrific images, but they really give you a raw sense of the massive loss of life. I don't even watch network news anymore, MH370 was the last straw period. I get all my info thru said pictures, international news, and PBS. Those pictures say 1,000 words.
This is just horrible. Yes, it's happened before at the hands of many including the US(who handed out medals to the crew after shooting down an A300 with almost as many people onboard as this flight I will add) but that was then, this is now. Today, I am shocked that this can still happen, especially after research into the alleged missile system which, as stated by others here, cannot simply track the "wrong" plane. I find it hard to fathom that Putin would dare fly over this region, but given the similarity between the belly of his IL-96(minus the obvious shape and extra 2 engines) and the MAS 772, I suppose it is possible miss-identification. If not of Putin's IL-96, then perhaps of another Russian VIP aircraft which all carry that same livery, maybe a Tu-214 like this one:
Either way, horrible news to wake up to. I was getting text after text so I checked my phone hoping to go back to sleep after a late night...wide awake now. Gut-wrenching to think about those people's last moments. Just a horrible human tragedy. I hope we learn the truth about this, it will be very complicated with so many nations involved and so much at stake with the eyes of the world upon them. MAS was having financial problems well before MH370, after this crash, well, I think they're done. Possibly by no fault of their own on either accord. Horrible tragedy. I really wish all the best to the loved ones of those almost 300 people who lost their lives today.
Hell, honestly, maybe it needs to be shown more so people get it through their skulls that war isn't an episode of "24", and real people are getting killed and mangled. Might make people stop and think before being so gung ho about bombing the crap out of people when they see people that could very well be their families someday killed in that way.
/rant.
A
Adler
Guest
Of course. They need to keep minimal media coverage to cover their war crimes. 1 Israeli dead from a rocket vs 250+ Palestinians so far, more than half civilians with no connection to Hamas. 4 innocent Palestinian children blown by an airstrike on a beach. Oops. Guess Israel never liked the Beach Boys.
Hamas is bad, the IDF is far worse. And the track record shows.
I'm not looking to derail this thread, so I'll just post this one comment and be done. There's a video by Dennis Prager circulating, it's very good; one point at the end really brings it all into perspective. He says:
If, tomorrow, Israel laid down its arms and announced, "We will fight no more," what would happen? And if the Arab countries around Israel laid down their arms and announced "We will fight no more," what would happen?
In the first case there would be an immediate destruction of the state of Israel and the mass murder of its Jewish population. In the second case, there would be peace the next day.
In the first case there would be an immediate destruction of the state of Israel and the mass murder of its Jewish population. In the second case, there would be peace the next day.
typhoonpilot
Well-Known Member
I just woke up where I am in Asia and have read through this thread and other news about it. What a terrible tragedy and what a terrible piece of bad luck for Malaysian Airlines just 4 months after the MH 370 disappearance. This will doom that airline to bankruptcy within months if not weeks.
MH17 was operating above closed airspace: Eurocontrol
By: David Kaminski-Morrow
London
Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 had been operating 1,000ft above the upper limit of closed airspace at the time of its disappearance over eastern Ukraine.
Pan-European air navigation service Eurocontrol states that the aircraft was flying at 33,000ft when radar contact was lost.
It states that the route had been closed by Ukrainian authorities up to 32,000ft. But the route was "open at the level at which [MH17] was flying", says Eurocontrol.
In the wake of the loss of the Boeing 777-200ER, apparently with no survivors, the Ukrainian authorities have extended the restrictions within the Dnipropetrovsk flight information region, the airspace in which the jet was travelling.
Eurocontrol says the upper airspace closure limit has been withdrawn and that this closes all routes in the Dnipropetrovsk airspace. "All flight plans that are filed using these routes are now being rejected," says Eurocontrol. "The routes will remain closed until further notice."
European authorities have activated their aviation crisis co-ordination cell in response to the 777 crash and the airspace closure. "We call for an immediate and thorough investigation into the causes of the crash," says European Commission president Jose Manuel Barroso. "The facts and responsibilities need to be established as quickly as possible."
NATO secretary general Anders Fogh Rasmussen says: "Much is unclear about the circumstances of the crash. However, the instability in the region, caused by Russian-backed separatists, has created an increasingly dangerous situation.
"It is important that a full international investigation should be launched immediately, without any hindrance, to establish the facts and that those who may be responsible are swiftly brought to justice."
MH17 was operating above closed airspace: Eurocontrol
By: David Kaminski-Morrow
London
Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 had been operating 1,000ft above the upper limit of closed airspace at the time of its disappearance over eastern Ukraine.
Pan-European air navigation service Eurocontrol states that the aircraft was flying at 33,000ft when radar contact was lost.
It states that the route had been closed by Ukrainian authorities up to 32,000ft. But the route was "open at the level at which [MH17] was flying", says Eurocontrol.
In the wake of the loss of the Boeing 777-200ER, apparently with no survivors, the Ukrainian authorities have extended the restrictions within the Dnipropetrovsk flight information region, the airspace in which the jet was travelling.
Eurocontrol says the upper airspace closure limit has been withdrawn and that this closes all routes in the Dnipropetrovsk airspace. "All flight plans that are filed using these routes are now being rejected," says Eurocontrol. "The routes will remain closed until further notice."
European authorities have activated their aviation crisis co-ordination cell in response to the 777 crash and the airspace closure. "We call for an immediate and thorough investigation into the causes of the crash," says European Commission president Jose Manuel Barroso. "The facts and responsibilities need to be established as quickly as possible."
NATO secretary general Anders Fogh Rasmussen says: "Much is unclear about the circumstances of the crash. However, the instability in the region, caused by Russian-backed separatists, has created an increasingly dangerous situation.
"It is important that a full international investigation should be launched immediately, without any hindrance, to establish the facts and that those who may be responsible are swiftly brought to justice."
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Such Zionist BS. For decades, the international norm has been "proportional response." If someone attacks our embassy, we don't level their entire country. Why? Because it's not "proportional." But none of that matters with Israel. The Palestinians can kill a single person, and we turn a blind eye as Israel rains down rocket after rocket on them, killing hundreds of Palestinian civilians, including numerous children.
I normally wouldn't get dragged into a political debate in a thread about a crash, but this pro-Israel crap needs a response. You shouldn't be able to kill hundreds of civilians and get cheered on for it by what is supposed to be the greatest democracy in the world.
It's the country where the crash occurred. Other countries with investigation expertise will assist as requested. Even the NTSB only takes an assistance role, again if requested, for accidents of US registered or built civil aircraft that crash outside the United States.
fholbert
Mod's - Please don't edit my posts!
Don't forget the US shot down an Iranian airliner full of civilians.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
The ICAO requirement is for the country of the aircraft's manufacturer to have a right to participate in the investigation, also, Mike.