Malaysia Airlines 777 missing

I still am one of those that see no evidence that this plane has crashed.

If the plane had crashed the ELT's would have gone off.

Joe
 
We just need more information. My gut feeling is that the plane probably went down right where it left radar contact and the wreckage was just missed, but it's pointless to speculate anymore. Every day there is a new lead that ends up being contradicted or turns up nothing. If the latest rumor about the ACARS data is true that plane could be literally anywhere.

JOEFRIDAY2 said:
If the plane had crashed the ELT's would have gone off.
Click to expand...

Not if it was underwater.
 
MikeD said:
Still, it does Iran no good to steal one. Whats one 777 going to do for them? They can't use it without it being seen that they have it.

And the stolen passport thing.....I said it on page 1 of this thread, that's nothing more than a petty theft and fraud right now, as there is nothing to link that event to any foul play.
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In a post 9/11 world, you can basically not rule anything out when it comes to terrorism.

I wonder how many passengers, with stolen passports, were on air carrier flights that crashed or disappeared in the past...
 
In reference to the WSJ article about the plane flying for 5 additional hours per ACARS data:

Discussion on Reddit regarding latest updates, and general explanations of how the ACARS engine parameter monitoring arrangement works with Rolls-Royce:
http://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/20anme/us_investigators_suspect_missing_airplane_flew_on/

I think general engine parameter messages are only sent once every 30 minutes, and go directly to the engine manufacturer. Unlike abnormal events (such as system failures) which go to MX control, the general parameters are things like N1, N2, EGT, FF, vibration, oil quantity, etc. This goes into a big database at Rolls-Royce so they can do long term trend monitoring of engine health and look for abnormalities. I've dabbled in intercepting VHF ACARS myself, and used some of resources like these which explain how to decode messages:
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/decoders/acars.pdf

The E1-E9 messages represent automatic engine telemetry. Someone did some crazy detailed analysis on the ACARS engine monitoring format used by United, and posted it here (extremely old, circa 1997):
http://acarsonline.pbworks.com/w/page/1286721/Engine data analysis (United)

UAL uses message type "5Z7" instead of E1, which just means it's an "airline designated" downlink format.

Here are some excerpts:

Boeing 737
ACARS DOWNLOADS:-

.N936UA 5Z0 3617 UA2251
/25 SFOSAN -16 0946 725 279 290
0804 000 608 0892 2495 00 90 000 42 0200
0804 000 598 0886 2510 00 50 000 44

EDITED VERSION:-
REG# MSG TYPE MIN/SEC FLT#
.N936UA 5Z0 36 17 UA2251
DATE FR TO TMP GRWT M. IAS FL
/25 SFOSAN -16 0946 725 279 290
N1 EGT N2 FF OT OP ?
0804 000 608 0892 2495 00 90 000 42 0200
0804 000 598 0886 2510 00 50 000 44
Click to expand...

And here's one from a United 777 during cruise:

-----------------------------------------------------------[10/06/1997 18:22]
ACARS mode: 2 Aircraft reg: .N778UA
Message label: H1 Block id: 6 Msg. no: D42A
Flight id: UA0947
Message content:-
#DFB E23C03 778 0947 EHAMKIAD 061097 1330 ER
189 3 841 841 2744 2746 -580 -585 36999 37004 472764
7844 7590 1198 1198 017949681111130213000000000 0
63.7186 -25.0401 -1054 06-1048 0002 0015 06700 13
0 46734 47230 23814 23118 32 40 375196803500379200 17100
61500 61900 777007 777052 3441 3441292)004
10 0) 10 04015016 0) 14 29 34 0) 0)36438-3895014
598 598 6 8825 8755 878 874 4340 4286 373 414 556 589
11 64 67 78 8137 8377 115 109 00 03 00 21 -08
-309-309-310-310-307-238-238-237-237-306-308-308-309-310 009
009-381-402-025 001 000106105004016 000 000 000 000 0050

EDITED VERSION:-

-----------------------------------------------------------[10/06/1997 18:22]
ACARS mode: 2 Aircraft reg: .N778UA
Message label: H1 Block id: 6 Msg. no: D42A
Flight id: UA0947
Message content:-
ENROUTE
MSG TYPE REG# FLT# FR TO DATE TIME RECORDED
#DFB E23C03 778 0947 EHAMKIAD 06 10 97 1330 ER

MACH FOB TMP FL GR/WT
189 3 841 841 2744 2746 -580 -585 36999 37004 472764
FF EPR
7844 7590 1198 1198 0179 49681111 1302 1300 0000000 0
LAT LON
63.7186 -25.0401 -1054 06-1048 0002 0015 06700 13
0 46734 47230 23814 23118 32 40 375196803500379200 17100
ENGINE #'S
61500 61900 777007 777052 3441 3441292)004
FL
10 0) 10 04015016 0) 14 29 34 0) 0)36438-3895014
ALL THE FOLLOWING IS UNKNOWN!!!!!
598 598 6 8825 8755 878 874 4340 4286 373 414 556 589
11 64 67 78 8137 8377 115 109 00 03 00 21 -08
-309-309-310-310-307-238-238-237-237-306-308-308-309-310 009
009-381-402-025 001 000106105004016 000 000 000 000 0050
Click to expand...

The astute observer will note that at least in United's case, the ACARS message includes LATITUDE/LONGITUDE in addition to to the other parameters on the B777. If this is the case with Malaysian Airlines, I can imagine that would be extremely useful to international law enforcement authorities right about now.
 
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The German magazine Stern (online edition) is reporting that on a previous flight with same co-pilot (and maybe pilot) two attractive young ladies were invited into the cockpit by the flight crew. The girls said they spent most of the flight on the flight deck, including take off and landing, and they showed a variety of photos of themselves in the cockpit, wearing the pilots' hats, and otherwise enjoying themselves..........
http://www.stern.de/panorama/vermis...beobachtet-feuerball-vor-vietnam-2095979.html

The passage regarding the girls and co-pilot is at the end of the article.
 
gliderboy said:
The German magazine Stern (online edition) is reporting that on a previous flight with same co-pilot (and maybe pilot) two attractive young ladies were invited into the cockpit by the flight crew. The girls said they spent most of the flight on the flight deck, including take off and landing, and they showed a variety of photos of themselves in the cockpit, wearing the pilots' hats, and otherwise enjoying themselves..........
http://www.stern.de/panorama/vermis...beobachtet-feuerball-vor-vietnam-2095979.html

The passage regarding the girls and co-pilot is at the end of the article.
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Not every other country is as scared of their own shadow like the US.
 
Seggy said:
After seeing who wrote the article, it will turn out to be true. The gentleman who writes for aviation for the WSJ is the best aviation reporter in the world.
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I believe it was you who referred him to contact me in the wake of the Colgan accident. We talked with each other several times. Regardless, I absolutely despite 99.99% of reporters regardless of affiliation. Andy is the one reporter I have ever been in contact with that shows a true technical understanding and can communicate with us... and then most importantly translate it into a public format. When I see his name, I know it's likely to be legit, and he has yet to prove me wrong. He is one of the few that is the real deal and I have the utmost of respect for him.

This, of course, opens up a million more questions than it answers, but like I said to you earlier... we both know the NSA/CIA/and so on have been up the butt and around the corner of boeing not long after they realized they kept getting data and the plane was no longer talking.
 
I'm still with the idea that the aircraft was instructed to turn onto a heading of 58 degrees by the auto pilot (as expected by the airway, and as performed by the preceding aircraft) and after that it continued to fly that heading until it ran out of fuel (or something else brought the plane down) because the crew were incapacitated and could not program then auto pilot to perform the next left turn on the airway (as expected and performed by the preceding aircraft) and that ADS-B data (and maybe more) transmission ability lost due to whatever incapacitated the crew.

Both the "power panel overheat" mentioned before and a minor hull breach at the SATCOM antenna adapter plate allowing slow decompression - either of these could explain why the flight continued for more than 4 hours (if it did) undetected and an incapacitated crew and without relaying data or changing course .
( Remember that a 16-inch crack under the 3-bay SATCOM antenna adapter plate had already been discovered on another B777)

Or is it just wishful thinking that this was an accident and not deliberate.
 
Would that engine data show whether it was spooled down for landing or any other thrust changes?
 
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pullup said:
Would that engine data show whether it was spoiled down for landing or any other thrust changes?
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According to that (very dated) link there are takeoff and climb reports in addition to the cruise updates it sends, but I'm not sure about landing.
 
NiallG said:
I'm still with the idea that the aircraft was instructed to turn onto a heading of 58 degrees by the auto pilot (as expected by the airway, and as performed by the preceding aircraft) and after that it continued to fly that heading until it ran out of fuel (or something else brought the plane down) because the crew were incapacitated and could not program then auto pilot to perform the next left turn on the airway (as expected and performed by the preceding aircraft) and that ADS-B data (and maybe more) transmission ability lost due to whatever incapacitated the crew.

Both the "power panel overheat" mentioned before and a minor hull breach at the SATCOM antenna adapter plate allowing slow decompression - either of these could explain why the flight continued for more than 4 hours (if it did) undetected and an incapacitated crew and without relaying data or changing course .
( Remember that a 16-inch crack under the 3-bay SATCOM antenna adapter plate had already been discovered on another B777)

Or is it just wishful thinking that this was an accident and not deliberate.
Click to expand...
Then why would the transponder be turned off?
 
Where it could be if flown for that long:

u9umuty8.jpg
 
NiallG said:
I'm still with the idea that the aircraft was instructed to turn onto a heading of 58 degrees by the auto pilot (as expected by the airway, and as performed by the preceding aircraft) and after that it continued to fly that heading until it ran out of fuel (or something else brought the plane down) because the crew were incapacitated and could not program then auto pilot to perform the next left turn on the airway (as expected and performed by the preceding aircraft) and that ADS-B data (and maybe more) transmission ability lost due to whatever incapacitated the crew.

Both the "power panel overheat" mentioned before and a minor hull breach at the SATCOM antenna adapter plate allowing slow decompression - either of these could explain why the flight continued for more than 4 hours (if it did) undetected and an incapacitated crew and without relaying data or changing course .
( Remember that a 16-inch crack under the 3-bay SATCOM antenna adapter plate had already been discovered on another B777)

Or is it just wishful thinking that this was an accident and not deliberate.
Click to expand...
My only issue with this, do modern airliners not pre-load their flight plan route on departure, ammended in flight as required?
 
inigo88 said:
According to that (very dated) link there are takeoff and climb reports in addition to the cruise updates it sends, but I'm not sure about landing.
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You would definitely think it would send information if it flamed out due to lack of fuel
 
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