Malaysia Airlines 777 missing

While I think @MikeD is bang on with his opinion of why they were searching there.

The Malaysian military is 100% responsible for not disseminating this information earlier. The new poster is right, it takes under 5 minutes to do a playback. Please don't tell me that nobody thought of it until just today.

Something is not adding up here...
 
While I think @MikeD is bang on with his opinion of why they were searching there.

The Malaysian military is 100% responsible for not disseminating this information earlier. The new poster is right, it takes under 5 minutes to do a playback. Please don't tell me that nobody thought of it until just today.

Something is not adding up here...

Lots of stuff is not adding up here. But that doesn't automatically make it a conspiracy. That link cannot be legitimately made yet.
 
Man cut the crap, how could they not know the acft turn back, the military had a primary radar that could track it,even if the ADBS and SSR is out. This turn back argument was purported as early as saturday and we are only now confirming it. Do you realize how much resources was wasted searching a 100m off.
It takes less than 5 minute to do a playback
I am going to assume that you have not lurked here and have no idea who you are speaking to with the arrogant, ignorant, and rude reply such as you just made. So let me just inform you of this, not only is Mike one of the most respected members on this forum, he is also a MOD here, Doug's friend (the owner of this forum), is extremely knowledgeable and experienced in many areas of aviation, including accident investigations, and he has had a career (actually several careers) in the military, law enforcement, firefighting and border patrol, that not only are admirable, but that many could only have hoped to achieve. He is also probably the most reasoned, fair, controlled, logical, and rational member of this forum. This forum is lucky to have a person of his caliber as a contributing member. He is the person that I feel the closest to on this forum as well, so I take these comments rather personally.

Now perhaps you would like to share your credentials and your experience in International SAR operations at sea, military operations and your background in professional aviation.
 
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While I think @MikeD is bang on with his opinion of why they were searching there.

The Malaysian military is 100% responsible for not disseminating this information earlier. The new poster is right, it takes under 5 minutes to do a playback. Please don't tell me that nobody thought of it until just today.

Something is not adding up here...

I am however reminded of a famous incident from history where two radar operators reported an unexpected blip on their radar screen and when they reported it they were told "not to worry about it" - I am not a radar operator but surely there must be lots of unexplained blips on a radar screen within uncontrolled airspace that are ignored if they are not considered a threat to existing controlled traffic - speculation by me - but remember that the operators were not looking for a missing B777 a few hundred miles off track between 1:20 and 2:40 local time. I also know how difficult it can be to get reports up the line to someone who would listen - and the ridicule that is expressed when someone sticks their neck out - just like happened here on the Ethiopian Airways hijacking !!!!

I do agree that lots of things do not add up - but it is easy to be frustrated by the lack of information as well as the lack of proper sources that can actually be verified - here in Ireland I would be called a Doubting Thomas looking to see the evidence and double-check it's source and the only thing I can verify is the disappearance of the flight from the FlightRadar24 display at approx 1:20 local time.

It is interesting to try and get a timeline on this as reported...
1:20 - loss from FR42 display
1:30 - contact with aircraft via another aircraft (B777 captain reports message relay)
1:40 - contact with aircraft lost by ATC (voice or radar or what?)
The Airline said the flight disappeared at 2:40 am local time two hours into the flight - that was reported 4 days ago!!!
2:40 - Last Military contact reported.
I just give up - maybe people need to check their times, synchronise their watches and time zones
 
Man cut the crap, how could they not know the acft turn back, the military had a primary radar that could track it,even if the ADBS and SSR is out. This turn back argument was purported as early as saturday and we are only now confirming it. Do you realize how much resources was wasted searching a 100m off.
It takes less than 5 minute to do a playback

@shane wiliams: Welcome to JC. It looks like you are doing a great job of making new friends.
 
2:40 - Last Military contact reported.


The thing is they've been saying for awhile is that 1) they lost contact after about 2 hrs, and 2) the plot everybody has been going with has the last location south of Vietnam. Many have said (after reviewing v x t = d) that the location didn't jive. Then I think yesterday, "they" released the fact that it turned. Today "they" reported "that it was tracked heading west for over an hour.

Incompetent, or CYA -- take your pick. I just hope the SAR crews had all this info from the beginning and it was an issue of communications betweent he government and the media.
 
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My quality contribution for the day
 
My default setting is to embrace Occam's Razor.

Every accident investigation reveals technical, organizational, and human deficiencies. In an earlier post I suggested that if they weren't able to rewind "tape", we are left with a patchwork of anecdotal evidence. In this thread, many folks have made assumptions about foreign civilian operations, foreign military operations, and SAR operations.

If we ignore everything that happened on the ground, we have an aircraft that diverted from planned course, stopped communicating, and went missing. I have no idea what the hell happened, but that is not a unique scenario.

I accept that many questions will require an FDR to answer. The one area that bugs me is the lack of information released about the ACARS stream, or lack thereof.
 
Man cut the crap, how could they not know the acft turn back, the military had a primary radar that could track it,even if the ADBS and SSR is out. This turn back argument was purported as early as saturday and we are only now confirming it. Do you realize how much resources was wasted searching a 100m off.
It takes less than 5 minute to do a playback

Oh wow.
 
I am however reminded of a famous incident from history where two radar operators reported an unexpected blip on their radar screen and when they reported it they were told "not to worry about it" - I am not a radar operator but surely there must be lots of unexplained blips on a radar screen within uncontrolled airspace that are ignored if they are not considered a threat to existing controlled traffic - speculation by me - but remember that the operators were not looking for a missing B777 a few hundred miles off track between 1:20 and 2:40 local time. I also know how difficult it can be to get reports up the line to someone who would listen - and the ridicule that is expressed when someone sticks their neck out - just like happened here on the Ethiopian Airways hijacking !!!!

I do agree that lots of things do not add up - but it is easy to be frustrated by the lack of information as well as the lack of proper sources that can actually be verified - here in Ireland I would be called a Doubting Thomas looking to see the evidence and double-check it's source and the only thing I can verify is the disappearance of the flight from the FlightRadar24 display at approx 1:20 local time.

It is interesting to try and get a timeline on this as reported...
1:20 - loss from FR42 display
1:30 - contact with aircraft via another aircraft (B777 captain reports message relay)
1:40 - contact with aircraft lost by ATC (voice or radar or what?)
The Airline said the flight disappeared at 2:40 am local time two hours into the flight - that was reported 4 days ago!!!
2:40 - Last Military contact reported.
I just give up - maybe people need to check their times, synchronise their watches and time zones
There are plenty of unexplained blips

Blips moving on a constant heading and speed is not a normal occurrence however.

Though I do admit it could be easily missed at those hours
 
I think the issues we are seeing here are varied. It take some time to mass a reliable search with the types of vessels and planes needed and their crews. This does not happen as quickly as we would like to believe in some cases and they then have to travel to the area to be searched. We are also dealing with several countries and at some point depending on what waters the plane and/or significant debris is/are found in, it will then have to be worked out who will lead it, the jurisdictions involved/worked out, and who will actually be in charge of the investigation.

Also, I had read in a foreign outlet about the possibility of the Vietnamese Navy's radar seeing the plane turn and posted about this, but it also had to be verified, receive the exact details/info of the readings and I have no idea what channels and entities have to be gone through to accomplish this or how long it can take. And it was not reported right away as far as I can discern. You have military and civilian ops and from various countries no less, trying to deal with each other, communicate, bring their pieces of the puzzle together and sort things out.

I have felt for a while now that the wrong area may have been being searched (my own ideas) and that the plane would/will not be found near it's last position or even presumed position. The search was expanded to another area yesterday, satellites from China are being re-deployed, more planes and vessels brought in and the search expanded yet again and we have to also allow for currents and other issues. The airline is not in charge of the investigation nor even the search. They will only release as much info as they have and are allowed to release. There is no real point in releasing certain info in tidbits here and there until they are verified, made sense of and linked together.

I know this is extremely frustrating and difficult for everyone, but it's a large, large area and they are looking for a small amount of whatever is to be found in that area, i.e. evidence of the crash. Expect many false positives as was the case of AF a the first reports of debris were not from the plane at all and it took them a couple of days (2 as I remember) to reach the area. For those familiar with this area and who have flown over it, we know just how congested it is with all sorts of vessels, all kinds of debris, slicks and more. This will not be an easy search.

People are focusing on the ACARS, but we do not even know if it was transmitting any possible issues, what they were and when. I am not sure why anyone thinks they should be getting the data before sense can be made of what may have happened either. Obviously far more questions and very little in the way of answers. So right now things seem to be scattered and all over the place. That is probably true to some degree and expected also to some degree, but we do not know everything that is possibly known by others involved in this incident and things may begin start to shape up sooner rather than later. I still think it's going to be a bitch to find the plane and I would be very surprised if this happens quickly considering now where it may have gone down.

My main concern is still for the loved ones and families of the pax and crew. If we are frustrated, or upset, they are completely devastated, beyond desperate, wracked with grief, lost, and with little to no hope.
 
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Lots of stuff is not adding up here. But that doesn't automatically make it a conspiracy. That link cannot be legitimately made yet.
I will be interested a year from now, if ever, we find out how with the military data, it took three days to change the search area. I'm not saying conspiracy, I'm suggesting either their communication to media has been lax or nobody thought to check those tapes

The latter I find hard to believe
 
The thing is they've been saying for awhile is that 1) they lost contact after about 2 hrs, and 2) the plot everybody has been going with has the last location south of Vietnam. Many have said (after reviewing v x t = d) that the location didn't jive. Then I think yesterday, "they" released the fact that it turned. Today "they" reported "that it was tracked heading west for over an hour.

Incompetent, or CYA -- take your pick. I just hope the SAR crews had all this info from the beginning and it was an issue of communications betweent he government and the media.

I think that we may be a little unfair and maybe some stuff is lost in translation or interpretation.... within 36 hours the following was posted:
"What we have done is actually look into the recording on the radar that we have and we realised there is a possibility the aircraft did make a turnback," Rodzali Daud, the Royal Malaysian Air Force chief, told reporters at a news conference. (http://tuoitrenews.vn/international/18181/malaysia-says-jet-may-have-turned-back-search-expanded)
I also see the word may and radar data suggests in relation to the tracked target to the current search area.I am searching of a map I saw on line showing both search areas - and that was a few days ago. If I find it I will post a link - but I do think that they are grasping at anything at this point regardless of the probability of it being a good lead.
 
I will be interested a year from now, if ever, we find out how with the military data, it took three days to change the search area. I'm not saying conspiracy, I'm suggesting either their communication to media has been lax or nobody thought to check those tapes

The latter I find hard to believe
A report 36 hours after the flight went missing states that: "What we have done is actually look into the recording on the radar that we have and we realised there is a possibility the aircraft did make a turnback," Rodzali Daud, the Royal Malaysian Air Force chief, told reporters at a news conference. (http://tuoitrenews.vn/international/18181/malaysia-says-jet-may-have-turned-back-search-expanded)
It is nice to see something in quotes rather that relayed via a media reporter.... I can see the above quote being headlined by "Aircraft turned back!"
 
I will be interested a year from now, if ever, we find out how with the military data, it took three days to change the search area. I'm not saying conspiracy, I'm suggesting either their communication to media has been lax or nobody thought to check those tapes

The latter I find hard to believe

That's all very possible. All I'm saying is that there is much we don't know right now, or maybe isn't even known. But yes, what you write above is certainly something that while I can't prove it, I can't discount it happening either. Just need evidence either way.....and that may come out in time.
 
That's all very possible. All I'm saying is that there is much we don't know right now, or maybe isn't even known. But yes, what you write above is certainly something that while I can't prove it, I can't discount it happening either. Just need evidence either way.....and that may come out in time.
I still hold on to my theory that someone "stole" this airplane.

Maybe because at this point, it's the best possible outcome.

Tintin Flight 714 anyone?

f714ts.jpg

Frans-Paski.jpg
 
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