Maintaining professionalism at 11 pm...

[KLB]

This thread is so awesome I just had to find a reason to chime in.

Here's what the FOM at some random 121 operator says about the issue



That's it. Nothing about when to cancel. I think I've only landed uncontrolled twice in six years of 121 flying. I'm pretty sure we canceled with center on the taxi-in once clear of the runway last time, but honestly it's a detail that escapes me. Usually when we deal with uncontrolled airports it's for an 0530 departure at a place that doesn't open their tower until 0600. In those cases I almost always wait until we're just about to the end of the runway until asking the FO to get the clearance.

I hear that a certain 135 operator's rules are written with exactly the same language.

Some people may think that the rules are way different between 135 and 121, but a lot of it is written exactly the same. Looks like a copy and paste job in the FAR's between 135 and 121 on a lot of stuff.

ie..we know a lot of stuff that you 121 guys can and cannot do because we use very similar rules.

 

[SurferLucas]

You boys should go fly on the west coast...I can't count on 2 hands how many uncontrolled fields that we flew into at Horizon.

Many times SkyWest would be flying into those same fields and at the same time...we were courteous to them and they were back to us.

They'd call us a "megawacker" and we'd call them a "small brazilian lawnmower"...but it was all in good fun.

 

[Bumblebee]

You boys should go fly on the west coast...I can't count on 2 hands how many uncontrolled fields that we flew into at Horizon.

Many times SkyWest would be flying into those same fields and at the same time...we were courteous to them and they were back to us.

They'd call us a "megawacker" and we'd call them a "small brazilian lawnmower"...but it was all in good fun.

you fly the stork?

 

[SurferLucas]

you fly the stork?

I flew the Q4 at Horizon from Feb 07 till May of last year when I got furloughed.

I used to see you guy and the P-3's at Redding/Redmond and I think Medford.

That was before I became part of JC, or else I would have offered up a beer!

 

[Bumblebee]

I flew the Q4 at Horizon from Feb 07 till May of last year when I got furloughed.

I used to see you guy and the P-3's at Redding/Redmond and I think Medford.

That was before I became part of JC, or else I would have offered up a beer!

oh yeah, we were in Redding last year quite a bit...

I was a Bro captain for SkW as well out west, so we probably delayed you a number of times while we taxied to the gate...:rotfl:

 

[SurferLucas]

oh yeah, we were in Redding last year quite a bit...

I was a Bro captain for SkW as well out west, so we probably delayed you a number of times while we taxied to the gate...:rotfl:

It's understandable...I mean, those planes are liable to go off the runway and/or taxiway and essplode all over the place.

We used to run into SkyWest at night flying into Redding, Arcata, Medford, Eugene, Redmond...and they were always good to cancel in the air if it were VFR, or as soon as they could at Arcata...because we all know it's never VFR there!

 

[Bumblebee]

we rolled in all the same hoods! Maybe we even took that long van ride to the Red Lion!

 

[derg]

Apparently Bumblebee goes from flying over square in cruise to shock cooling during descent!

(I'm kidding folks, don't taze me bro!)

 

[SurferLucas]

we rolled in all the same hoods! Maybe we even took that long van ride to the Red Lion!

Arcata was the worst...and of course we always wondered if the driver had been smoking some of Humbolt's finest!

It always amazed me that Redding could be 10/clear and 100+ on the ground..and ACV would be 1/2mile, overcast at 200ft and 50 at the same time.

 

[Bumblebee]

and I raise the flaps on the rollout :laff:

 

[derg]

Where's mg! I'm tellin'!

 

[Bumblebee]

Arcata was the worst...and of course we always wondered if the driver had been smoking some of Humbolt's finest!

It always amazed me that Redding could be 10/clear and 100+ on the ground..and ACV would be 1/2mile, overcast at 200ft and 50 at the same time.

yeah idk how many approach lights continue call we made into there...
then if it's low in RDD ACV was crystal!

 

[SurferLucas]

I hated to walk around Eureka alone...way to many crazy Meth Heads there.

Now, when you were running over squared, before you shocked cooled the engines really good...did you run lean of peak or rich of peak?

 

[Alchemy]

You boys should go fly on the west coast...

West coast? no way. I'm having way to much fun in wichita, lubbock, fargo, and.....amarillo? Who needs beaches when you've got beautiful grass prairies as far as the eye can see, scorching summers, and bone-chilling winters? Ahhh, the midwest, you know I love ya

 

[KLB]

It's understandable...I mean, those planes are liable to go off the runway and/or taxiway and essplode all over the place.

We used to run into SkyWest at night flying into Redding, Arcata, Medford, Eugene, Redmond...and they were always good to cancel in the air if it were VFR, or as soon as they could at Arcata...because we all know it's never VFR there!

I've flown into just about everyone of those airports. I used to have fun in Eureka/Arcata. One time I shot the approach three times attempting to get into Arcata. A skywest brasilia, a fedex caravan, and I were stacked three high in hold waiting for the weather to get better and all of us fail to get in that morning. I ended up going to Redding (where it was severe clear) to refuel and went back over there a finally got in. But at that point it was clear enough to go VFR up the coast to Crescent City and back VFR down to Eureka for the daily layover. Those were fun times!

 

[SurferLucas]

I've flown into just about everyone of those airports. I used to have fun in Eureka/Arcata. One time I shot the approach three times attempting to get into Arcata. A skywest brasilia, a fedex caravan, and I were stacked three high in hold waiting for the weather to get better and all of us fail to get in that morning. I ended up going to Redding (where it was severe clear) to refuel and went back over there a finally got in. But at that point it was clear enough to go VFR up the coast to Crescent City and back VFR down to Eureka for the daily layover. Those were fun times!

What was the holding fix there? Was it KNEES?

It seemed that we always did Captain Monitored Approaches at ACV...have the poor FO fly all the way down to 1800RVR only to have the Captain bounce the landing and blame the FO.

 

[mshunter]

After reading this thread, I have come to the conclusion that some people out there plain old just don't care about anyone but themselves. The just don't consider anyone else important. They have an "I got mine" attitude. I joined JC because I wanted a group of pilots to associate with who I thought shared a common thread of "we all need to stick together." It appears that I was wrong and this thread has showed me that. I have posted in this thread, and others out of anger, so there are some places that it appears I share the same opinion. But if you look closely at those posts, you can tell which one are because I am angry, and which one are not.


For those of you saying that it's to hard to cancel on the way to the gate, I want you to ask yourself this question. And I mean really ask yourself. How would you feel if the Police showed up at the airport asking you if you saw that airplane that was behind you on the approach land yet. That he was over due by 45 minutes, and they were starting SAR for them. Then, when you returned home after your layover, or you departed and heard an ELT going off only to find out that the person following you ended up a smoking hole in the ground because you took your sweet time in an extended taxit to the gate. Imagine it was a fellow JC member. Does anyone remember the thread about a Caravan from one of our JC members who was carring full power to get to the runway because he had iced up so quickly? Weather can change quickly. Temps can drop in a matter of one lap in a hold, and an airplane can pick up enough ice in 4 minutes to cripple it, all because you wanted to taxi to the gate and cancel there. And are you not being paid block time? Get that extra tenth on your paycheck for canceling after clearing the runway, while you pause for a minute to save the fellow man.

It's not a matter of anything else other than a common courtesy that could potentially one day save someones life.


A final thought. Lets just say that this thread has really shown me who the "we all have to stick together" people are, and the "I don't care because I got mine" people are.

To all the stick to gether people------->:beer:

 

[jhugz]

Operate as PIC for your aircraft how you see fit and I'll operate mine how I see fit. Will I go out of the way to help other aviators in the air? Absolutely, as long as I don't feel it will jeopardize the safety of my aircraft. Will I cancel IFR if the conditions are CAVU? Yes. Will I hold on to my IFR Clearance until I'm chalked on the ramp if the conditions are bad enough? Yes. What's safe for you may not be for me.

It's not a matter of me going out of my way to screw my fellow aviator but I wouldn't feel any guilt for the guy behind me. You need to wait another 5 minutes up in the air? Deal w/ it. If you can't because of icing then declare an emergency and do what you need to do. Otherwise relax and enjoy the scenic tour of the 270 Radial yet again.

Make your own decisions and operate the aircraft however you feel comfortable operating it. This whole your a bad pilot because you can't talk and taxi game is getting old.

Did I ever say how much I hate these technique threads? Yet I still keep coming back. I'm an addict. :crazy:

 

[mikecweb]

But what happens when your student wants to cancel IFR before you do?

 

[jhugz]

But what happens when your student wants to cancel IFR before you do?

Depends on where the student is. If I'm teaching the student from scratch then it's my job to influence their ideas from practically nothing and again it will air on the side of safety. If I'm doing an IPC and they want to CX IFR before I normally would, I don't have a problem w/ it as long as they don't taxi off a taxi way while doing so. At that point I'm acting as more of an evaluator then a educator(even though I still am educating).