cmill
Cold Ass Honky
Those foot pedal things work on the ground too...
The problem is, you forget how to use them when the A/P is engaged all day.
Maintaining professionalism at 11 pm...
- Thread starter kiloalpha
- Start date
The problem is, you forget how to use them when the A/P is engaged all day.
+1. Seriously, some of us operate on thin margins. And having to constantly hold for 15 mins at a time while you saunter in to the gate is just being lazy, and causing un-due delays.
If it's an airline, more than likely there is two poeple in the cockpit. Even if it was just one pilot, if you can't taxi the airplane and work the radio, IN ANY WEATHER CONDITION you shouldn't be in command of any airplane. It's actually very easy to press the PTT and keep your eyes on the taxiway while taxing. Or you could just stop for the 35 seconds it takes to call FSS when clear of the runway and cancel. Seriously, this is the best you got.
We all have to use the same airports and airspace. If you can't co-exist with GA, then find a new career.
kiloalpha
Well-Known Member
When you're flying 121, I'm sure you call into the station in range and they'll be looking for you... If you don't show up or they see a big fireball out on the runway, I'm sure the CSR, rampers, baggers, whoever will call 911 for you.
Seggy
Well-Known Member
Could be the reason. If the tower closes how accurate are the braking reports on the taxiways/runways?
They were talking about winter on why they need to cancel IFR at the gate.
Sorry, but just because someone else operates on thin margins, doesn't mean I should adjust what I am suppose to do to accommodate them. People when they are fatigued might misjudge a turn in an unfamiliar airport at night. Mistakes happen.
Seggy
Well-Known Member
What happens if the ground servicing agent handles another airline on the field and they are distracted with them?
kiloalpha
Well-Known Member
Kinda hard to miss a giant flaming fireball at 11pm in the middle of the night.
Seggy
Well-Known Member
Oh, one more thing before I get ripped apart some more by people who need to get off their high horse and chill.
Take a look at the TVC Accident about the airport conditions, specifically about the braking action reports and the snow removal process and the word 'completion factor' at that airport and then get back to me.
Thank you.
Take a look at the TVC Accident about the airport conditions, specifically about the braking action reports and the snow removal process and the word 'completion factor' at that airport and then get back to me.
Thank you.
Seggy
Well-Known Member
Ok obviously, you are not used to the airline environment so let me explain.
Some airlines (we will call that airline A) at night might have two ground agents that staff the station that do everything from unload the planes to file lost bag reports. The airlines, in order to save money, contract these agents out to another airline (we will call that airline B).
Airline A lands before Airline B. Airline B in-range call is not answered, because Airline A ground personal is working on filing lost baggage claims inside the nice heated office inside where they can't see the runway.
Airline B runs off the runway....
You're right. But you could extend some common courtesy and not delay the next guy5-15 minutes while we all wait for you taking your sweet time to cancel. Bottom line is, you don't know if the next guy is a Wall Street fat cat or some guy in a Cherokee 140 who can barley afford a hobby he dearly loves. It's not called adjusting, it's called courtesy. If I know someone is behind me waiting to get in, I cancel as soon as practical. Kind of like when taking off from a satalite airport.
So it's o.k. for the airline to save money, but not for the small 135 operator? Double standard? Look, you scratch my back, and I'll scratch yours. But If I was the guy's friend who started this thread, you had better belive I'd return the favor. And when I got the chewing from the captian of the other airplane, my response would be, "so hows it feel?"
Here's my take, take it for what its worth.
We all have to co-exist out there. GA/ 14 CFR 91 as well as Air Carrier/ 14 CFR 121. The 121 guy is the one with the more restrictive set of regulations, both federal as well as company.
To me, IF the following conditions are met, then an air carrier flight could potentially cancel IFR once safely on the deck at their destination, or at a time determined by the Capt to be safe to cancel:
A. Do the Opspecs allow it?
if so, then,
B. Are the prevailing conditions (flight/ground/wx) safe enough to allow it?
If the above are met with a Yes, then I don't see why a Capt couldn't make his own determination to cancel his IFR if he knows he may be delaying departures/arrivals due to it. He wouldn't have to or be forced to, mind you; however if being a good neighbor with other air carrier, or in this case GA, is covered by A & B above, then why not do it? Again, it's the Capt's call.
This all said, the inverse is true too. A GA aircraft inbound in similar conditions, while not bound by an OpsSpecs (talking the average GA plane and operation here), if the pilot feels conditions allow him to cancel his clearance at some point prior to landing, or after landing, then it'd be common courtesy to thy neighbor to do so, whether said neighbor is an air carrier waiting to shoot an approach, or another GA. The PIC, just like the aforementioned air carrier pilot, doesn't have to, but the same courtesy applies.
BL is, we all have to co-exist.
We all have to co-exist out there. GA/ 14 CFR 91 as well as Air Carrier/ 14 CFR 121. The 121 guy is the one with the more restrictive set of regulations, both federal as well as company.
To me, IF the following conditions are met, then an air carrier flight could potentially cancel IFR once safely on the deck at their destination, or at a time determined by the Capt to be safe to cancel:
A. Do the Opspecs allow it?
if so, then,
B. Are the prevailing conditions (flight/ground/wx) safe enough to allow it?
If the above are met with a Yes, then I don't see why a Capt couldn't make his own determination to cancel his IFR if he knows he may be delaying departures/arrivals due to it. He wouldn't have to or be forced to, mind you; however if being a good neighbor with other air carrier, or in this case GA, is covered by A & B above, then why not do it? Again, it's the Capt's call.
This all said, the inverse is true too. A GA aircraft inbound in similar conditions, while not bound by an OpsSpecs (talking the average GA plane and operation here), if the pilot feels conditions allow him to cancel his clearance at some point prior to landing, or after landing, then it'd be common courtesy to thy neighbor to do so, whether said neighbor is an air carrier waiting to shoot an approach, or another GA. The PIC, just like the aforementioned air carrier pilot, doesn't have to, but the same courtesy applies.
BL is, we all have to co-exist.
kiloalpha
Well-Known Member
My friend did tell me he's slowed down or widen out so that 717 could land before he does many times. It's when he hears that certain pilot call on PIA approach, he'll cancel and fly towards the airport to beat him in. But that only happens now after he got chewed out.
SpiraMirabilis
Possible Subversive
If you taxi at a speed that will cause you to explode if you exit the taxiway if you take a wrong turn you deserve it. Mostly sarcasm.
cmill
Cold Ass Honky
Winter, summer, spring, or fall, theres no reason to wait till you're on the ground to cancel and hold everyone else up.
Your reasoning just doesnt make sense. Whats the time limit for a past dude A/C? 30, 45 minutes? If you're in a position where you cant get your ass out of the plane under your own power, you're gonna burn in that amount of time regardless.
The one on the high horse is the one taxiing to the gate at 3kts with an open flight plan, and the same company whos SOP seems to be to not call a field in sight till 3 miles out with 20 miles visibility.
Theres safety, then theres drinking so much company kool-aid that it becomes acceptable to disregard other's operations.
SpiraMirabilis
Possible Subversive
By the way, they won't even start looking for you for 30minutes and then you figure another hour for the local constubalatory to show up, then another 5-10 minutes for all the real emergency response to kick in. In the event of a fireball scenario you'd all be long dead before your flight plan caused anyone to look for you. If there were survivors their own 911 calls would kick in long before the search for you began.
cmill
Cold Ass Honky
I dont disagree with any of that, but we all know of certain operators who wont call a field in sight under perfect conditions, or who wont cancel IFR even tho they've said they have the field in sight.
Seggy
Well-Known Member
Agree. And I'm sure we find that with some air carrier Capts/operators as well as some GA PICs/operators. To me, this is where the "be a good neighbor" thing comes out (CAVU WX scenario), again regs allowing. Not required in the least, but sometimes just the nice and efficient thing to do. By the same token, I understand fully if a particular Capt/PIC is constrained by his own regs that wouldn't allow this.