Maintaining professionalism at 11 pm...

[ppragman]

Not canceling can be problematic if there are people who aren't as well equipped trying to get in.

Winter time, the navajo and the Caravan are waiting in the hold picking up ice while the jet rolls out and clears and taxis to the gate, then cancels. By clearing the runway, then canceling, the jet captain can prevent some other guy from maybe being in an actual life threatening situation.

Also, having landing on iced over runways in multiple types and sizes of airplane, your logic doesn't work. If you maintain directional control like your supposed to anyway, and fly the airplane all the way clear of the runway, you'll be fine.

 

[SpiraMirabilis]

What happens if there is no cell phone service?

Then they can walk their flaming ass to the nearest landline and still beat the search response. I'm not convinced there is any safety benefit from waiting to cancel at the gate vs clear of the runway. It sounds like it is more of a CYA thing and that is pointless because if you cause your aircraft to explode while taxiing the fact that you left your flight plan open is not going to cover one millimeter of your hairy ass

 

[SpiraMirabilis]

By the way, I wanted to see how many times I could fit 'ass' into that post.

 

[USMCmech]

Not canceling can be problematic if there are people who aren't as well equipped trying to get in.

That is the key problem resulting from the "cancel at the gate" theory.

There are others up in the air burning up precious fuel waiting on you to make a radio call.

If conditions are actually so bad that you feel you could have an accident trying to make it from the runway to the gate, then go ahead and don't cancel. Better yet call in a PIREP warning the other pilots trying to land behind you. The other 99.9% of the time, help out your brother pilots.

If I'm behind you and need to declare a fuel emergency in order to land, I'm going to be mighty pissed. I wouldn't care if the pilot was a 250lb swede, we would probably have to dance.

 

[smig]

Winter, summer, spring, or fall, theres no reason to wait till you're on the ground to cancel and hold everyone else up.

Not all carriers ops spec allow cancelling in the air, as previously mentioned.

My op specs prohibit cancelling until on the ground, yet I make sure to cancel as soon as the runway is cleared.

 

[Seggy]

So it's o.k. for the airline to save money, but not for the small 135 operator? Double standard? Look, you scratch my back, and I'll scratch yours. But If I was the guy's friend who started this thread, you had better belive I'd return the favor. And when I got the chewing from the captian of the other airplane, my response would be, "so hows it feel?"

Did I say that? Is going tick for tack professional? No.

I have to follow what is in MY book.

BL is, we all have to co-exist.

Agreed.

Then they can walk their flaming ass to the nearest landline and still beat the search response. I'm not convinced there is any safety benefit from waiting to cancel at the gate vs clear of the runway. It sounds like it is more of a CYA thing and that is pointless because if you cause your aircraft to explode while taxiing the fact that you left your flight plan open is not going to cover one millimeter of your hairy ass

I see what you are saying here but you never know. For example, the reason why the fire burnt for so long and was so intense in the 3407 accident isn't what one would expect. Each accident is different and has its own factors that influence the outcome.

 

[Gonzo]

Why not cancel while you're taxiing so you can save someone time and fuel?

Most of the time I do. On the way to the gate is also called taxiing.

Does your company manual preclude you from cancel once off the runway????? I'd have choice verbs for ya too!

NO, in fact it was common in the ATR to cancel over 100 miles out and just fly VFR(No GPS or FMS:insane.

Because that happens all the time when its 90 degrees outside and CAVU.

Im not askin anyone to be take any undue risks.

Like I said I only wait till the gate in the winter. The 145 is a handful to taxi on a contaminated runway/taxi way. I am running a checklist and trying to help the CA not kill us.

Winter, summer, spring, or fall, theres no reason to wait till you're on the ground to cancel and hold everyone else up.

How much time do you have in a large airplane in the winter up north?

The one on the high horse is the one taxiing to the gate at 3kts with an open flight plan, and the same company whos SOP seems to be to not call a field in sight till 3 miles out with 20 miles visibility.

Maybe they don't see the airport? Maybe the CA is also running a checklist and is trying to help you by taxiing at the same time.

Theres safety, then theres drinking so much company kool-aid that it becomes acceptable to disregard other's operations.

I don't drink company kool-aid but I also don't care about your operations. Sorry, I do what I believe is best for me.

If conditions are actually so bad that you feel you could have an accident trying to make it from the runway to the gate, then go ahead and don't cancel. Better yet call in a PIREP warning the other pilots trying to land behind you. The other 99.9% of the time, help out your brother pilots.

That is one of the reasons I like to wait to get to the gate to cancel in the winter. A lot of times we are the first plane in last few hours.

 

[jhugz]

Sorry I'm under the philosophy that I'm going to do whatever I think is right for myself and the safety of the crew and pax. If that causes someone to hold another 5-10 mins then tough. If my workload is to high to cancel on the ground before I get to the gate then to bad. You hold a little longer. I'm sure most arguing the other way would be the first to chastise someone chopping up a taxiway light w/ a prop because their attention was elsewhere.

 

[Bumblebee]

Really, you can't cancel on the taxi in?

I had no idea. I could and would cancel in the air when I could maintain vfr should a turtle be xing the runway. Most times I preferred to stay ifr until on the taxiway, but I really have never heard of maintaining the ifr to the gate...

You are not needing ifr services any longer at that point...

 

[BajtheJino]

By the way, they won't even start looking for you for 30minutes and then you figure another hour for the local constubalatory to show up, then another 5-10 minutes for all the real emergency response to kick in. In the event of a fireball scenario you'd all be long dead before your flight plan caused anyone to look for you. If there were survivors their own 911 calls would kick in long before the search for you began.

But I fly for an airline! They're supposed to be waiting on me!

Sorry I'm under the philosophy that I'm going to do whatever I think is right for myself and the safety of the crew and pax. If that causes someone to hold another 5-10 mins then tough. If my workload is to high to cancel on the ground before I get to the gate then to bad. You hold a little longer. I'm sure most arguing the other way would be the first to chastise someone chopping up a taxiway light w/ a prop because their attention was elsewhere.

Well, youre on your way to being a great people hauler. Dont give a flying about anyone but yourself because your flying a baby jet. If you can't handle a radio while youre taxiing an Erj or Crj (a very complex airplane, right) and cancel to help your fellow aviator out you deserve all the bad things that will probably happen in your career.

Is this what you teach your students?

 

[jhugz]

Well, youre on your way to being a great people hauler. Dont give a flying about anyone but yourself because your flying a baby jet. If you can't handle a radio while youre taxiing an Erj or Crj (a very complex airplane, right) and cancel to help your fellow aviator out you deserve all the bad things that will probably happen in your career.

Is this what you teach your students?

I teach my students to be conservative and always air on the side of safety, you have another way? Way to stay classy though and take personal jabs.

 

[Bumblebee]

Well, youre on your way to being a great people hauler. If you can't handle a radio while youre taxiing an Erj or Crj (a very complex airplane, right) and cancel to help your fellow aviator out you deserve all the bad things that will probably happen in your career.

give me a break...why wold you say such a mean spirited thing?

Make your argument, and not personal attacks.

 

[FL900]

So if you hit a patch of ice, snow bank, etc. on the runway or taxiway and then go veering off to the side, into a ball of fire, they will find you in a few minutes on fire rather and evacuating rather than the next morning burnt to a crisp.

Damn!! How fast do you taxi?

 

[ozziecat35]

What happens if there is no cell phone service?

Most likely you have AT&T? :crazy:

 

[jynxyjoe]

give me a break...why wold you say such a mean spirited thing?

Make your argument, and not personal attacks.

That's not really bangothemango's style.

 

[jynxyjoe]

If you taxi at a speed that will cause you to explode if you exit the taxiway if you take a wrong turn you deserve it. Mostly sarcasm.

Lol. You are funny, but in all seriousness, taxing at any speed greater than stop can get ugly up north. I watched a 1900 slide sideways at slow taxi speeds up at RKD from the right seat. Bit of a pucker factor for me anyhow. Hell, scareacuse NY was a landmine of black ice for taxi.

Also you gotta remember, guys like Seggy had to deal with people in RKD who had a history of giving bad field conditions and almost getting a crew bent up in a ball. If it could happen once it could happen again. We don't always do crazy stuff (to you 135 guys) so that your blood pressure rises and you go grey early.

 

[mikecweb]

I can't...ummm I don't understan......ummm wow.
Very interesting thread.

 

[TFaudree_ERAU]

Let me help you...

 

[BajtheJino]

give me a break...why wold you say such a mean spirited thing?

Make your argument, and not personal attacks.

Its not really mean. Peoples actions in life have consequences. But anyways-The dude hands out some peanuts or pretzels and give some dual given and the next thing you know he's the aviation expert of airline ops. I've hauled freight so I talk about freight. I fly 121 so I talk about 121. I don't instruct so I don't give instructing advice. I don't RV so I don't give ATC advice. Let he who has experience give advice and he that doesn't keep silent.

That's not really bangothemango's style.

Bangothemango...I like it!

 

[mikecweb]

Its not really mean. Peoples actions in life have consequences. But anyways-The dude hands out some peanuts or pretzels and give some dual given and the next thing you know he's the aviation expert of airline ops. I've hauled freight so I talk about freight. I fly 121 so I talk about 121. I don't instruct so I don't give instructing advice. I don't RV so I don't give ATC advice. Let he who has experience give advice and he that doesn't keep silent.

I love you.


(NO homo.)