Low time pilot looking to start my career

eblatner

Member
Hi everyone! I just finished my CPL AMEL and ASEL. I have an instrument rating as well. I'm willing to go anywhere needed and do practically anything. I don't want people replying saying "just get your CFI." I'm only 19 so I have 4 years before I can even think about going to the airlines. I'm looking for a company that I can call home for many years to come. A highlight of my pilot career so far is that I flew from the Bay Area to Miami as PIC of a Cessna 180.


Ratings/Certifications
Commercial License
ASEL, AMEL, Instrument
Medical First Class - Expires 4/26/21
AOPA GA Security Training Completed
DC SFRA Training Completed

Hours as of 10/14/2017
Total - 257.4
Multi - 39.2
PIC - 170.3
XC - 92.5
Complex - 40.4
HP - 41.1
Night - 19.2
IMC - 4.9
Simulated IR - 49.0

Planes Flown/Special Equipment
172
182
180
BE76
BE95
DA20
G1000 - 104.4 Hours
430/530/650/750 experience

I have also never failed a checkride or written exam. Thank you for your time!

-Eric
 
Hi everyone! I just finished my CPL AMEL and ASEL. I have an instrument rating as well. I'm willing to go anywhere needed and do practically anything. I don't want people replying saying "just get your CFI." I'm only 19 so I have 4 years before I can even think about going to the airlines. I'm looking for a company that I can call home for many years to come. A highlight of my pilot career so far is that I flew from the Bay Area to Miami as PIC of a Cessna 180.


Ratings/Certifications
Commercial License
ASEL, AMEL, Instrument
Medical First Class - Expires 4/26/21
AOPA GA Security Training Completed
DC SFRA Training Completed

Hours as of 10/14/2017
Total - 257.4
Multi - 39.2
PIC - 170.3
XC - 92.5
Complex - 40.4
HP - 41.1
Night - 19.2
IMC - 4.9
Simulated IR - 49.0

Planes Flown/Special Equipment
172
182
180
BE76
BE95
DA20
G1000 - 104.4 Hours
430/530/650/750 experience

I have also never failed a checkride or written exam. Thank you for your time!

-Eric

Hey! Welcome and congrats on completing your commercial training. I would def do a google search for banner towing companies sine you have some TW experience, and also it might be a bit late now to apply but try anyways for air surveying companies. After reaching about 800tt for me the doors opened up pretty wide as for as options and offers go. I would also def consider CFI before all else if your main goal is stay local or with one place, especially since so many places are hiring for CFI's right now. Good luck!
 
Hey! Welcome and congrats on completing your commercial training. I would def do a google search for banner towing companies sine you have some TW experience, and also it might be a bit late now to apply but try anyways for air surveying companies. After reaching about 800tt for me the doors opened up pretty wide as for as options and offers go. I would also def consider CFI before all else if your main goal is stay local or with one place, especially since so many places are hiring for CFI's right now. Good luck!

Thank you!
 
I think you can get a restricted ATP at 21? might be worth looking at if that helps your decision making/career goals

I didn't go through 141 for my training. I thought that was the only way. If there's another way I'd love to hear about it!
 
No problem, that's what we do here!
Do you have any goals set for where you want to be in the next 5-10 years of your career? It's easier to plot your course if you already know the destination

I prefer to stay in charter or corporate. Of course airlines might be necessary to build turbine time. Depends on what I can get at 1000 to 1500 hours. My instructor has a lot of connections so he is seeing what SIC jobs I can get in single pilot aircraft. Like Citation Mustangs that require two pilots because of their OPSEC. They accepted my resume today so now I just have to wait. Its not guaranteed though. I'm just trying to find as many opportunities as possible.
 
I find the need for a CFI ticket proportional to the propensity of the use of decimal points in descriptionss of flight time.
In fairness to the OP, with an announcement like that, it would probably be a disservice to the students...Too many of our peers instructed because they had to. They might love flying, but you have to also love teaching to avoid turning people away from aviation...
 
In fairness to the OP, with an announcement like that, it would probably be a disservice to the students...Too many of our peers instructed because they had to. They might love flying, but you have to also love teaching to avoid turning people away from aviation...

That's exactly why it's a last resort for me. I've had instructors who suck or don't give it their all and it is a huge disservice to the student and the flying community as a whole.
 
I may have come off abrasive, but I’m just keeping it real.

It is hands down the best way to fatten up a logbook for a few reasons, not the least of which is that you learn more about flying than anything you did in the past.
 
I didn't go through 141 for my training. I thought that was the only way. If there's another way I'd love to hear about it!

This is a common misconception about the Restricted ATP. 141 only applies for the total time reduction to either 1,000 or 1,250, depending on the number of college credits of FAA-approved coursework; for this reduction to apply the college coursework must have been completed at a college associated with the 141 school. However you can get a Restricted ATP at age 21 and 1,500 hours total time with only 200 hours cross-country time regardless of which part your flight training was under. So you could definitely go to the airlines at age 21.

Since your goal is charter and corporate, applying for SIC positions in single-pilot corporate aircraft is a good idea. Hopefully the company that already accepted your resume works out, but if not definitely apply to others you know of. I have never done that type of work but my understanding is those jobs are quite hard to find unless you know the right person.

If that doesn't work out, you might try applying to 135 operators that hire FOs, such as Air Cargo Carriers http://www.aircargocarriers.com/careers/ . A friend of mine was recently hired at Air Cargo Carriers with a new commercial certificate so you would have a sporting chance there. 135 passenger carriers like Cape Air, Boutique Air and Southern Airways might be a good option as well. These sorts of companies would be a good option as well, although I know Cape Air requires 500 hours for FOs, not sure about the others. But at these companies you would be flying multi-engine and/or turbine equipment in a crew environment, and in the case of passenger operations you would be interacting with passengers quite a bit, which I would think would be excellent experience for corporate flying.

Another option would be to look into aerial survey. The Pictometry vendors and a few other survey companies hire very low-time pilots, and you would definitely have a chance at the Pictometry vendors with your times. Most of them are listed in this thread, which also includes quite a bit of information about them:
https://forums.jetcareers.com/threa...for-2017-2018-season-fresh-commercial.251351/
Unfortunately they do most of their hiring in September or October as the busy season runs roughly from October to May, so it is probably too late to get hired for the beginning of the season. But it would still be worth applying to these companies anyway, as they will occasionally hire mid-season to replace pilots who leave before the end of the season.

It is also possible you may be able to get hired for a sky-diving or banner-towing operation, although I don't know as much about these operations.

I know you said you do not want to instruct if possible, but if it is financially feasible it would be a good idea to start working toward your CFI certificate while applying for jobs you are qualified for now, in case you can't get hired at any of them. There is a staggering amount of competition for non-CFI low-time jobs so you may not be able to find one, and you will be competing with people who are willing to work for very little or even for free to build time. With a CFI certificate many more opportunities will open up to you, especially in today's hiring climate where most flight schools are hiring and many have raised their pay to attract CFIs. As others have mentioned, instructing is excellent experience as it will require you to have a high degree of knowledge; it is also good CRM experience as you and your student are a sort of 2-person crew.

Best of luck with your job search.
 
In fairness to the OP, with an announcement like that, it would probably be a disservice to the students...Too many of our peers instructed because they had to. They might love flying, but you have to also love teaching to avoid turning people away from aviation...

Yeah this is the position that myself and many of my peers are in. With so many single pilot 135 and various other operations requiring high times, we'll all be eligible for R-ATP and making better money flying better planes. I'd jump at any chance (within reason) to actually go out and gain real-world flight experience, rather than just sitting right seat flying the same patterns and cross country trips with students. Please, save the discourses about how "CFI is so great because you learn/experience/make decisions/become such a better pilot," because they've been rehashed for decades (and frankly I will disagree with you on most or all points because there's very little a CFI does that is preparatory to a real flying job, but I digress). I've applied to probably close to 100 jobs since March and only gotten a few interviews and nothing materialized from them. What i'm finding is that even though they'll interview a lowly 300 hour pilot like me, there are 500-900 hour guys who mostly instructed and are looking for something else, and there's enough of them to edge out us low time guys. I'm going to try my very best to be an enthusiastic and caring CFI, but I already know I'm not the best teacher or great at explaining things. And in all honesty, the only thing I look forward to is that since I learned in the 141 environment and will end up instructing at a 141 school teaching foreigners, at least they'll have all the syllabi and training material prepped and organized and we just teach a standardized curriculum. And the hours will accrue quickly. But I know we (and our airline recruiters) are all just counting down until we have enough time. The only real silver lining is, as has been mentioned, is that CFIs are in such demand that you literally can get a job with 0 hours dual given, pay is coming up like it has been creeping up at the regionals, and all the schools (aside from the little mom and pop/airport FBO places) are offering everything from bonuses, to CFI add-ons, some are actually salaried so your pay is guaranteed, and a few offer relocation and temporary housing. Thus, we see the emergence of the generation of CFI who become instructors not because they want to, but because there really isn't any other choice.

And OP, I guess the takeaway from all this is that I'm in a very similar boat as you, and have tried to avoid being a CFI for a lot of the same reasons you have, but after doing all I could I still have no other options. I've been doing my CFI training since I graduated, always looking for other opportunities but none came to fruition. So alas, here I am close to taking a checkride and being a CFI probably around the new year. The only position I can think of that you might be eligible for would be with Grand Canyon. Their busy summer season is over, but I had a friend get on with them in August with a wet commercial multi, and I see they post ads on the orange site every week or so, so I guess they're still looking for a few spots to fill. Maybe try applying there?
 
Yeah this is the position that myself and many of my peers are in. With so many single pilot 135 and various other operations requiring high times, we'll all be eligible for R-ATP and making better money flying better planes. I'd jump at any chance (within reason) to actually go out and gain real-world flight experience, rather than just sitting right seat flying the same patterns and cross country trips with students. Please, save the discourses about how "CFI is so great because you learn/experience/make decisions/become such a better pilot," because they've been rehashed for decades (and frankly I will disagree with you on most or all points because there's very little a CFI does that is preparatory to a real flying job, but I digress). I've applied to probably close to 100 jobs since March and only gotten a few interviews and nothing materialized from them. What i'm finding is that even though they'll interview a lowly 300 hour pilot like me, there are 500-900 hour guys who mostly instructed and are looking for something else, and there's enough of them to edge out us low time guys. I'm going to try my very best to be an enthusiastic and caring CFI, but I already know I'm not the best teacher or great at explaining things. And in all honesty, the only thing I look forward to is that since I learned in the 141 environment and will end up instructing at a 141 school teaching foreigners, at least they'll have all the syllabi and training material prepped and organized and we just teach a standardized curriculum. And the hours will accrue quickly. But I know we (and our airline recruiters) are all just counting down until we have enough time. The only real silver lining is, as has been mentioned, is that CFIs are in such demand that you literally can get a job with 0 hours dual given, pay is coming up like it has been creeping up at the regionals, and all the schools (aside from the little mom and pop/airport FBO places) are offering everything from bonuses, to CFI add-ons, some are actually salaried so your pay is guaranteed, and a few offer relocation and temporary housing. Thus, we see the emergence of the generation of CFI who become instructors not because they want to, but because there really isn't any other choice.

And OP, I guess the takeaway from all this is that I'm in a very similar boat as you, and have tried to avoid being a CFI for a lot of the same reasons you have, but after doing all I could I still have no other options. I've been doing my CFI training since I graduated, always looking for other opportunities but none came to fruition. So alas, here I am close to taking a checkride and being a CFI probably around the new year. The only position I can think of that you might be eligible for would be with Grand Canyon. Their busy summer season is over, but I had a friend get on with them in August with a wet commercial multi, and I see they post ads on the orange site every week or so, so I guess they're still looking for a few spots to fill. Maybe try applying there?

I don't think you could consider my post a discourse, so consider yourself saved. Stop reading now if you'd like to stay saved, since you brought it up. I think it's awfully arrogant of you to say there's very little a cfi does that is preparatory for a "real" flying job. If you are a lowly 300 hour pilot as you proclaim, how the hell do you know what is preparatory for a "real" flying job. Seriously? Have you considered the company you're in on this site? I happen to think the skills gained from a thousand hours of dual given or so bring a skill set to the crew environment that many of us really appreciate. But I won't annoy you with all the points that I could make based on a lowly 10 years of experience in this business. (and I'm new around here)
And by the way, this is not an emergence of a generation of cfi's that had to put in a lot of time instructing. When I learned to fly, guys were instructing for 2,3, maybe 4000 hours to get a job at the regionals. (maybe I exaggerate, someone can correct me about the late 80's early 90's) I'm sorry if you decided to be a pilot a couple years ago when someone with a commercial rating was sitting in the right seat of RJ. This is an industry of trends. You're a little late for the trend you were looking for.
Now, the good news is, your timing overall is perfect! The pilot shortage is in fact upon us. They've been talking about it since post Vietnam, I know cause I was hanging out at the airport listening to the old timers laughing about the "pilot shortage".
So, I've addressed your response, now lemme see if I can help.
You are right, if you're not apt for instructing, but must, being in the 141 environment will put you at the largest advantage. The structure and curriculum will allow someone to do their job effectively with the least detriment to the student. If you have exhausted all other options and find that you must do a job that you would not prefer to do, than take this opportunity to become more flexible and learn how to adjust in order to make something work. Find a work ethic that will help you grow into an aviator that will be a pleasure to fly with and someone people will trust with the care of some very expensive equipment and of course the lives of your passengers. This advice is based on your imagery that you've been forced by the industry into a job you do not want to do. Maybe you are already following this advice and are just venting some frustration here in this post. If that's the case, good on you.
That being said, it's hard to imagine you have exhausted all other options. Everyone is looking for pilots, patrol, imagery, skydiving, banners in the summer, right seat of a Caravan operation somewhere?
Stay positive, and work on making your current situation positive. Own it and do the best job you can possibly do. Instead of focusing on beliefs that you seem to hold as gospel, look for alternative view points that could possibly expand your understanding of an industry that you have obviously committed a lot of time and money and I hope passion to be a member.
Good luck.
 
I don't think you could consider my post a discourse, so consider yourself saved. Stop reading now if you'd like to stay saved, since you brought it up. I think it's awfully arrogant of you to say there's very little a cfi does that is preparatory for a "real" flying job. If you are a lowly 300 hour pilot as you proclaim, how the hell do you know what is preparatory for a "real" flying job. Seriously? Have you considered the company you're in on this site? I happen to think the skills gained from a thousand hours of dual given or so bring a skill set to the crew environment that many of us really appreciate. But I won't annoy you with all the points that I could make based on a lowly 10 years of experience in this business. (and I'm new around here)
And by the way, this is not an emergence of a generation of cfi's that had to put in a lot of time instructing. When I learned to fly, guys were instructing for 2,3, maybe 4000 hours to get a job at the regionals. (maybe I exaggerate, someone can correct me about the late 80's early 90's) I'm sorry if you decided to be a pilot a couple years ago when someone with a commercial rating was sitting in the right seat of RJ. This is an industry of trends. You're a little late for the trend you were looking for.
Now, the good news is, your timing overall is perfect! The pilot shortage is in fact upon us. They've been talking about it since post Vietnam, I know cause I was hanging out at the airport listening to the old timers laughing about the "pilot shortage".
So, I've addressed your response, now lemme see if I can help.
You are right, if you're not apt for instructing, but must, being in the 141 environment will put you at the largest advantage. The structure and curriculum will allow someone to do their job effectively with the least detriment to the student. If you have exhausted all other options and find that you must do a job that you would not prefer to do, than take this opportunity to become more flexible and learn how to adjust in order to make something work. Find a work ethic that will help you grow into an aviator that will be a pleasure to fly with and someone people will trust with the care of some very expensive equipment and of course the lives of your passengers. This advice is based on your imagery that you've been forced by the industry into a job you do not want to do. Maybe you are already following this advice and are just venting some frustration here in this post. If that's the case, good on you.
That being said, it's hard to imagine you have exhausted all other options. Everyone is looking for pilots, patrol, imagery, skydiving, banners in the summer, right seat of a Caravan operation somewhere?
Stay positive, and work on making your current situation positive. Own it and do the best job you can possibly do. Instead of focusing on beliefs that you seem to hold as gospel, look for alternative view points that could possibly expand your understanding of an industry that you have obviously committed a lot of time and money and I hope passion to be a member.
Good luck.

Yeah, it's mostly just venting. I can't really vent to my wife or a lot of my friends, since it's all just a foreign language to them. If I was 20 and single, yeah I'd be moving across the country or going to Saipan or whatever. But since I have a wife and bills and whatnot, I applied for everything within reason (i.e. no tailwheel, I don't have 25+ hours in a 182/206, and I'm not going to go to Air America). She greenlighted a few jobs that would have had me on and off the road, but those didn't pan out. I would have loved the chance to prove myself and get out there and gain real world experience so that I'm not looked down on as some little 300 hour punk who doesn't know anything, because that's not the case. As such, I'm just trying to accept the fact that I will have to instruct, and hoping that along the way I'll figure out how to cultivate learning and excitement about aviation. I appreciate your insight though.
 
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