lost a buddy to Jet-U

Why a few legs?
Every CA I know tells me they know with in 30 min if the FO was a CFI/IP or a Non-Cfi.
 
When it comes down to it, two major factors are the individuals natural abilities, and training. Thats why the military pilots are superior. They select the best, and give them superior training. A good pilot has to fit in a special kind of box. Some people don't quite fit that box. Unfortunately, some of those people are on the line right now. I remember being at Vegas when Cruise and Seggy were talking about some FO who was trying to upgrade at Colgan and Seggy was like "Oh God!":) Thats the kind of incompetence Im talking bout that no kind of experience can fix. Ok enough of this philosophical stuff, lets talk about making more money!
 
Hey guys I've been reading this thread and both JTrain and PCL_128 have some great points of view. Everyone has their own path to reach their goals in aviation. Some were instructors and some weren't. Both types exists and can be great pilots respectively.
 
jtrain609 said:
Would you trust a 10 year old to drive a car? What if they were really awesome. Ok now would you trust said 10 year old to drive your mother around? Why not? The 10 year old might drive as well as me, but I can assure you that I'm a better driver in the long run because I won't do anything too stupid in the car and through years of experience, have made more decisions in a car.
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777forever said:
Lol, a 10 yr old is not an adult. Their brain hasn't fully matured. Still I might trust the 10 yr old if he was accompanied at all times by a seasoned driver with dual controls:)
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Wasn't there a 10 year old girl last month that drove her father (safely) to the hospital all by herself after he had a stroke/heart attack?
 
My parents taught me how to drive when I was 11. I am superior to you all.:sarcasm::)

I believe any way of building time is better than doing a bridge program. I say get out there and experience some stuff where you can contribute more when you get in the 121 enviroment. So you'll have a little background knowledge to help you contribute when there is a decision to be made. Yes the captain is the final authority. But atleast you'll have enough knowledge to make him think about it. Anyone can learn systems and flows enough to make a plane go up and down. Thats the easy part.
 
I've had instructions to interject some stuff in here...

As was just said, ANY real world flying is going to do more good then sitting in a sim (and not even a real sim at most places) and learning some RJ systems. THAT is what ground school is for. If you need "extra" time to study before you get to class, you probably shouldn't be there any ways.

So of the real flying to build experience is there some that is "better"? I guess it depends on who you talk to. Most people think that what ever they did is going to make the best sorts of pilots. I think it really depends on who the person is, what works best and allows them to build the most experience. I would posit that freight flying probably builds the most experience but at the low times that we are talking about here, nobody qualifies to do that.

So that leaves us the standard CFIing, banner tow, DZ ops and mapping/picture taking.

Obviously, experience comes from variation. Variation in location, weather, operations and equipment.

In CFIing, it depends on what sort of instruction you are doing. A guy who only teaches privates in 152 doesn't see too many different types of airplanes, doesn't see too many different locations and probably doesn't go up in too much weather. Also, they are only going to do the 10 or so basic PPL maneuvers over and over again. I'll agree 1500 hours of that sort of instructing is pretty useless. But a guy who does some multi instruction and some instrument instruction as well is probably going to have some pretty valuable time. They are going to see different places and different airspace. They are going to operate in different weather conditions, and they are going to have experience working with more complex airplanes. In all honesty, other then the speed and the weight, a twin is a twin.

Regardless of what type of instruction somebody does, a CFI brings a whole lot to being a captain once they upgrade out of their starting FO position. I don't know if I could tell if an FO was a CFI or not in the first 30 minutes of flying with them. I'm not in that position. However, I can almost always tell if a captain used to instructor or not. It's pretty easy.

And a side story...

I was hanging out with a bunch of IPs last night. They were talking about the success rate (or lack there of) with the latest batch of new hires. These low time guys had around 600 hours (which arguably isn't "low time" anymore). Apparently a bunch of them built all their time banner towing. I guess we recruited from some specific location. Anyhow, these guys (in the words of the IP) "sucked". They didn't know ANYTHING and had NO skills flying the airplane.

I'm not saying banner towing is bad, but not all time is created equal, as much as some people might like to think it is.
 
Just got back from dinner with jtrain and some other JCers. Gotta say, my perception of jtrain on here was completely wrong. In the "real world" he's actually a good guy. I'm sure we'll still argue constantly just for some entertainment :), but he's not at all like I thought he'd be.
 
PCL_128 said:
Just got back from dinner with jtrain and some other JCers. Gotta say, my perception of jtrain on here was completely wrong. In the "real world" he's actually a good guy. I'm sure we'll still argue constantly just for some entertainment :), but he's not at all like I thought he'd be.
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Dinner was pure entertainment. My sides still hurt from laughing.
 
PCL_128 said:
Just got back from dinner with jtrain and some other JCers. Gotta say, my perception of jtrain on here was completely wrong. In the "real world" he's actually a good guy. I'm sure we'll still argue constantly just for some entertainment :), but he's not at all like I thought he'd be.
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I'm so pissed I missed that. Jtrain called me but I was being a bum and taking a nap so I didn't hear my phone.
 
PCL_128 said:
Just got back from dinner with jtrain and some other JCers. Gotta say, my perception of jtrain on here was completely wrong. In the "real world" he's actually a good guy. I'm sure we'll still argue constantly just for some entertainment :), but he's not at all like I thought he'd be.
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Yea, many of us aren't how we're perceived online. I'm really quiet, and one probably couldn't tell that I'm homo. Velo probably lets Jetblue guys ride in his car. And Chris_Ford, is really quiet, shy, polite, and not an obnoxious attention • IRL. No matter what he'll say to the contrary on here.

Which is why I always tell people not to judge members until they've met them in person.

No matter how they act, or what they say online.
 
stoki said:
Pinnacle wants a bridge program. Candidates lined up to the door to complete a 35,000$ bridge program and start flying the right seat of an RJ making 20,000$ a year. Applicants come in already knowing lots of RJ material, do a little better in training and sim, and wash-out rate decreases because of this and the company saves money. (all while continuing to pay with peanuts)

Express Jet notices the savings Pinnacle is making using this strategy, and also notice the line of applicants who are ready, and willing to spend 35,000$ on a bridge program to sit right seat, and they consider the idea, then go through with it. Express Jet now has a bridge program requirement in order to get hired as an F/O, or otherwise you need 50,000 PIC in the space shuttle.

Republic notices the trend, and notices that both companies have enough applicants that are willing to do this to suit their needs, and also make a bridge-program a requirement. Since everyone wants to go to Republic, and they know this, they change their policy, and now want a Type Rating before they hire you.

etc. etc. etc.
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Here's the part I don't understand, though. If there were a glut of pilots on the job market, I could see airlines getting away with raising the bar for entry. But with a pilot shortage, raising the bar should REDUCE the number of "qualified" applicants, making it even HARDER to fill training classes. So where are all these people coming from that are willing to pay for a bridge program or TR? I mean, Colgan was looking for 1000+/100+ for the Q, but suddenly it appears people are getting hired with less than half that, and getting the Q. So if there aren't enough people out there to begin with, where are all these pilots that Pinnacle is finding coming from?
 
"So where are all these people coming from that are willing to pay for a bridge program"

It really doesn't take that long to get 300 hours and an RJ course. A year, maybe? And, where do they come from? Take a look at the big academy ads at Flying mag, or AOPA's Flight Training mag. Not hard to suck them in, really. It's a pilot mill racket.
 
777forever said:
Question for all:

Would you rather put your child in a Piper Seminole with a 200 hr MEI with the ink dripping wet on his/her certificate or an Embraer 145 with a 200hr FO in the right seat?

I chose option 2.
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Depends. What's the guy in the left seat like? If he's a brand new upgrade that went through a program that spoon fed him his decisions, faked it as an FO and upgraded with minimum time....I'm taking option 1. B/c that combo of him and the low time guy is dangerous. If both of them look at each other and say "Uh....what now?" then there's a problem. It's DAMN easy to sit right seat and fake it until you seniority number wins you the left seat shuffle lottery. So, it's perfectly logical to see that a pilot could upgrade to CA without EVER having made an aeronautical decision in his life past "Quiznos or Wok and Roll?" I have to say the above question is incomplete.

I just finished a trip with a CA that almost would have fit the mold....except he has a ton of time. He frequently ignored limitations, ignored ATC instructions and made up his own SOPs for flying the plane b/c they made sense to him. In the 4 days I flew with him, I probably knew what to expect from his leg about 10% of the time. The other 90% was sheer guess work. Now, pair a new guy up with him with the "he's the CA, so he must know what he's doing" attitude, and it's a recipe for disaster....or at least a violation. I've been here for 2 years, and this is the first employee number I'm putting in my "do not pair me with" list.

Now, what gets me is guys saying it's okay for people to artificially raise the amount of money it takes to become a regional FO without increasing wages at the airline, but they won't let non-union guys on the jumpseat b/c they're destroying wages. Guess what? The bridge program guys are destroying wages, too. Why? B/c they'll pay $35K to get hired at 250 when otherwise the airline would have to raise wages in order to attract better qualified applicants.
 
kellwolf said:
Now, what gets me is guys saying it's okay for people to artificially raise the amount of money it takes to become a regional FO without increasing wages at the airline, but they won't let non-union guys on the jumpseat b/c they're destroying wages. Guess what? The bridge program guys are destroying wages, too. Why? B/c they'll pay $35K to get hired at 250 when otherwise the airline would have to raise wages in order to attract better qualified applicants.
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I don't agree with that. I don't think bridge programs guys are not destroying industry at all wages at all. Whatever somebody wants to spend on their training thats their business, not mine or any other pilots. BTW the 35k just represents Jet U guys. You know most bridge programs are much cheaper than that. I have yet to meet a Jet U guy in person. Met tons on Bridge program peeps from ATP, Flightsafety, and Falcon. Anyways, the TRUE reason wages are being "destroyed" is because we are in the middle of the Regional Rat Race. In an industry where our companies bid against each other, the cheapest bidder wins contracts and expands. Most pilots view this as a gold mine as it means quicker upgrades. Therefore, most pilots out there are looking out for numero uno and will gladly step right over other pilots to take the lead in the rat race to win the coveted major seniority number.

I mean look this forum and other forums, the Major Airlines forums are always more civil then the other forums. The Major guys are at their career company and comfortable. Us regionals guys are constantly flaming other regionals because we want to justify we made the right choice in rat race. We hope we chose the fastest rat. We constantly check to see what contracts expiring, hows attrition, hows movement, who's expanding, who's not, its absolute madness. Trying to talk to guys about raising wages would be like making a speech to runners during the Boston marathon. The regionals are what they are.
 
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