taseal
Well-Known Member
hmmm....
anymore info on this? lol
these guys don't pay all this money to pass ground/IOE... they pay it so that they can get in to an airline with like 250 TT
lost a buddy to Jet-U
- Thread starter taseal
- Start date
hmmm....
anymore info on this? lol
these guys don't pay all this money to pass ground/IOE... they pay it so that they can get in to an airline with like 250 TT
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Not true. Some guys (and I believe CC even used this as one of his reasons in the past) take the program b/c they're afraid of flunking initial. I've seen the reason more than once. Granted, a lot of guys do pay the extra $$ to rush to the regional level, but there are plenty out there that use it as a crutch. One of JetU's selling points is they use PCL's manuals, so when you get to initial, you've already seen everything before.
killbilly
Vocals, Lyrics, Triangle, Washboard, Kittens
Well...that's the funny thing. I don't think I was terribly clear about about my observation.
What I mean is, people can make arguments against the need for a pilot to get a degree for career progression. We all agree with it, we take it as chapter and verse, and despite whatever objections anyone might have, at the end of the day, it's because the Employer Wants It.
Now, we have these "RJ Programs." Taking the program doesn't mean you're smarter or more competent. It means you took the program. And The Employer Wants It.
Yet there is way more yelling and teeth gnashing about required RJ programs vs. required degrees.
I'm really not trying to stir the pot here - I understand that it's not a completely apples-to-apples comparison. I just find it interesting that the same end reasoning from the Employer's perspective, as a whole, seems to get a vastly different response from the same overall crowd who endorsed that very reasoning to begin with.
I'm done. I'd be way out of my element if I went much further with this.
<shrug>
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
With a degree, there's actually some merit outside of aviation. The only thing an RJ program has going for it is giving HR the warm fuzzies that the candidate is more likely not to wash out. You'll still see plenty of guys not applying to SWA b/c they require you to pay for a 737 type, but they pay better than the other 737 operators. The irony is PCL requires you to have this RJ program (more or less), but they pay worse than most of the operators out there that DON'T require it.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
What experience? You're an RJ copilot. You have no experience with this until you sit in the left seat of that RJ and have to fly with both groups of people. Once you do, I bet you'll find that you can't tell the difference between them. As Velo said, an FNG is an FNG.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Man, I need to have a drink with you one of these days.
You live over there in Citrus land (McDonough?)
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
BTW, my post wasn't meant as an attack on RJ FOs, just as a statement of fact that someone who hasn't had to sit in the left seat flying with an RJ-program graduate really isn't in a position to determine whether they do a worse or better job than a CFI or anyone else.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Sounds fun. First round's on me.
Newnan, aka AirTran base housing.
Ah man, I knew it too. I should have said it.
Same 717 Captain I mentioned to you before lives over in McDonough, but he had mentioned to me that Newnan also has a huge AirTran community.
You may be my neighbor. Check PM.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
Tell you what, ask me at NJC, I'll give you the skinny. You'll be there, right?
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
I'm sure he was, and that is in no way analogous to this discussion. A 250-hour PFT pilot is not the same thing as a JetU pilot that has been specifically trained in CRJ systems, FMS use, company-specific procedures, etc... Look, I hate that these guys are dropping ridiculous amounts of money on these courses, but the fact is, the failure rate of these applicants is much lower than a regular off-the-street newhire. I've seen the hard figures from Pinnacle's training department, and there's simply no disputing it. There's a reason that the airlines are preferring these pilots, and they're getting no money at all from them as they would in a PFT scheme. We can't equate PFT and "jet-transition courses." The two things are not identical.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Yep. Can't wait.
DE727UPS
Well-Known Member
"There's a reason that the airlines are preferring these pilots, and they're getting no money at all from them as they would in a PFT scheme."
Ummm.... Yeah.....
Let it be known that if you do an RJ course, you have a better chance of getting through initial 121 at a regional.
The problem I have with that is saying that it makes you a better pilot, or saying the RJ course is a substitute for real life experience.
It's not. It's a symptom of how F'd up this business has become. I'm sick of it. I fear for the future of the career.....
Ummm.... Yeah.....
Let it be known that if you do an RJ course, you have a better chance of getting through initial 121 at a regional.
The problem I have with that is saying that it makes you a better pilot, or saying the RJ course is a substitute for real life experience.
It's not. It's a symptom of how F'd up this business has become. I'm sick of it. I fear for the future of the career.....
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
EatSleepFly
Well-Known Member
Ooook. Stop. Halt. Hold it. Freeze. I'm afraid I need to hoist the BS flag, here.
All of what... one, maybe two of them? Please....
Who f'in cares if some dingleberry wants to throw down a bunch of money to occupy the right seat in a single pilot airplane, build multi time, and load boxes. Through ALL the time "Captain" Jtrain was at AMF, I bet I can count on one hand the number of "PFT F/O's" we had system wide and on the other hand the total number of people he trained. It's not like there was a waiting list to ride shotgun, especially in the Chieftain.
Sorry John, don't take this the wrong way, but you need to get real my friend. This ego stroking campaign of yours is getting way old.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
I'm not disagreeing with any of what you're saying. Unfortunately, it's not really relevant. We don't set the hiring criteria. Airline HR departments and Captains' hiring boards do. If they feel that a CRJ course best prepares someone for a newhire position at their airline, then I can't fault someone for taking a CRJ course to get their career going. There is no money changing hands between the newhire and the airline, so there is no "job buying" as with PFT. It's simply another item to add to the resume that regionals like to see.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Well said.
Pinnacle wants a bridge program. Candidates lined up to the door to complete a 35,000$ bridge program and start flying the right seat of an RJ making 20,000$ a year. Applicants come in already knowing lots of RJ material, do a little better in training and sim, and wash-out rate decreases because of this and the company saves money. (all while continuing to pay with peanuts)
Express Jet notices the savings Pinnacle is making using this strategy, and also notice the line of applicants who are ready, and willing to spend 35,000$ on a bridge program to sit right seat, and they consider the idea, then go through with it. Express Jet now has a bridge program requirement in order to get hired as an F/O, or otherwise you need 50,000 PIC in the space shuttle.
Republic notices the trend, and notices that both companies have enough applicants that are willing to do this to suit their needs, and also make a bridge-program a requirement. Since everyone wants to go to Republic, and they know this, they change their policy, and now want a Type Rating before they hire you.
etc. etc. etc.
Joe-Smoe who is an ambitious student and asipiring airline pilot is finishing his commercial and initially didnt want to go to Pinnacle because of the bridge program. He loved ExpressJet and their bases and wants to get on with them, but now they also require a bridge program. So he turns it down, while half of his friends suck it up and go through with it, because after all EJ is a good company to work for, so its worth it. Joe Smoe has nowhere to go, but he always loved and his favorite airline was Republic, but now they want a TR, if he doesnt get this, all is lost. He sucks it up and buys a TR, gets hired, gets paid peanuts.
Same scenario repeats 1000's of times, with different people. Airlines change their requirements and minimums to Comm. Multi. with bridge program, or 50,000 PIC in the space shuttle.
It is now the standard industry wide to pay for a bridge program, whether your a high time CFI or a inexperienced Comm. pilot. Cost of getting to the airlines just went up 35,000$ across the board.
It has happened elsewhere and can potentially happen here if this continues.
The cause of it is pilots accepting it. Not giving a care in the world about the rest of the industry. They just wanna fly a shiny jet. If this was to become an industry standard, I don't hold it against the people as much. But at a time like this, it is just ruining the industry and dragging down the profession even farther... at least on the regional level for now.:banghead::banghead:
Look through the airlines that are hiring, and see how many are taking guys on with Comm. Multi. ..... but I forget.. they don't operate a big shiny jet, that makes lots of whistling noises.
Express Jet notices the savings Pinnacle is making using this strategy, and also notice the line of applicants who are ready, and willing to spend 35,000$ on a bridge program to sit right seat, and they consider the idea, then go through with it. Express Jet now has a bridge program requirement in order to get hired as an F/O, or otherwise you need 50,000 PIC in the space shuttle.
Republic notices the trend, and notices that both companies have enough applicants that are willing to do this to suit their needs, and also make a bridge-program a requirement. Since everyone wants to go to Republic, and they know this, they change their policy, and now want a Type Rating before they hire you.
etc. etc. etc.
Joe-Smoe who is an ambitious student and asipiring airline pilot is finishing his commercial and initially didnt want to go to Pinnacle because of the bridge program. He loved ExpressJet and their bases and wants to get on with them, but now they also require a bridge program. So he turns it down, while half of his friends suck it up and go through with it, because after all EJ is a good company to work for, so its worth it. Joe Smoe has nowhere to go, but he always loved and his favorite airline was Republic, but now they want a TR, if he doesnt get this, all is lost. He sucks it up and buys a TR, gets hired, gets paid peanuts.
Same scenario repeats 1000's of times, with different people. Airlines change their requirements and minimums to Comm. Multi. with bridge program, or 50,000 PIC in the space shuttle.
It is now the standard industry wide to pay for a bridge program, whether your a high time CFI or a inexperienced Comm. pilot. Cost of getting to the airlines just went up 35,000$ across the board.
It has happened elsewhere and can potentially happen here if this continues.
The cause of it is pilots accepting it. Not giving a care in the world about the rest of the industry. They just wanna fly a shiny jet. If this was to become an industry standard, I don't hold it against the people as much. But at a time like this, it is just ruining the industry and dragging down the profession even farther... at least on the regional level for now.:banghead::banghead:
Look through the airlines that are hiring, and see how many are taking guys on with Comm. Multi. ..... but I forget.. they don't operate a big shiny jet, that makes lots of whistling noises.