Looking to get a EMB-120 type rating.

Oooh! That's probably why my 76 type's got 'circle to land VMC only' on it.
 
Bumblebee said:
It's about the circle to land . . . we can't do it in the sim because we can't see it (the runway) out of the side window. We have to fly the circle to get the type:)
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I had to the circle to land part of my type ride in the plane for the same reason.
 
granlistillo said:
wow mini, I find something I disagree with you on. I agree that it is not very useful, and that without time in type it is pretty much useless BUT:

1. It is a type rating with a limitation- SIC only. <--False. It's like saying Private Pilot ASEL Limitation Instructor must be present to fly. It is not an endorsement.
2. To fly outside the country of registry ICAO rules require that aircraft certified as multicrew, that the SIC have a type rating, even if it is limited to SIC privileges. <--Partly True
3. Any sic that is just a gear puller is a remarkably poor use of CRM. They Preflight also:buck:
4. There are some international contract jobs for FOs that require a SIC type for the license validation(Because to fly outside of the US you need that on your certificate as stated in #2. It's just like English proficient)-so it is useful as that. Time in type is really what is valuable.
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Nope. Its the same SIC check ride given since the birth of aviation, but with details to make it conform to ICAO's standards.... And to make regional FO's feel like they are "type rated";). I know many guys who retired as FO's at many majors that only have a commercial pilot certificate and they did the same training they do now.

http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulator...86256F4E007765A5?OpenDocument&Highlight=61.55

However, as it was previously stated in this document, the FAA wants it understood that as long as the person operates within the airspace of the United States (as defined in 14 CFR 91.1), a person won't be required to hold this proposed SIC pilot type rating. Only when a person operates in international airspace or the airspace of a foreign country where compliance with the pilot type rating standards of ICAO (i.e., ICAO Annex 1, paragraphs 2.1.3.2 and 2.1.4.1.A) or a foreign civil aviation authority's rule is it mandatory that U.S. pilot flightcrews hold the appropriate pilot type rating. As long as a person operates within the airspace of the United States (as defined in 14 CFR 91.1), that person only needs to comply the SIC qualifications and training of 14 CFR 61.55


But any ways I don't think it would be worth it to pay out of pocket to get an EMB 120 type.
 
WalterSobchak said:
Nope. Its the same SIC check ride given since the birth of aviation, but with details to make it conform to ICAO's standards....
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Except for those that are strictly operating part 91. They don't need a checkride to get the endorsement. Just 3 slams and what ever else 61.55 requires, a trip to the FSDO with an 8710 and all of a sudden they've got a type...er....Training Endorsement.

-mini
 
Lee D said:
At least for us SkyWest guys the type rating has to involve an actual flight in the plane. Reason being is that the available SIMs are level C. (Meaning the graphics are not VFR day like a level D SIM where you could get the whole rating. )
I am guessing ultimately to get a type you would need a flight too.
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I got a LR-JET type in simuflite's level C sim. No limitations aside from needing some SOE.
 
The SKYW flying the plane thing is a function of our training program. Nothing to do with a level C sim (remember C/A's have to perform a circle-to-land during PC's). It is in the works to do away with this type of training, and go to a PC-LOFT style like Mesa. ([shudder] I never thought that I'd make the statement that SKYW would aspire to be like Mesa).
 
A level C sim is all that is required for a type rating. SkyWest chooses not to do the entire rating in the sim.

An SIC type is just a paperwork rating.
 
Bumblebee said:
It's about the circle to land . . . we can't do it in the sim because we can't see it (the runway) out of the side window. We have to fly the circle to get the type:)
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Looks like I'm not entirely spot on for this one. It has been a while since my type ride and I was thinking that was an issue with all level C sims. Must just be that EMB sim's graphics in particular. . . .or lack of them, that creates the need to do the circle. Thanks for the clarification guys.

Sheesh. Just when I think I know everything. :D
 
DV8Pilot said:
The SKYW flying the plane thing is a function of our training program. Nothing to do with a level C sim (remember C/A's have to perform a circle-to-land during PC's). It is in the works to do away with this type of training, and go to a PC-LOFT style like Mesa. ([shudder] I never thought that I'd make the statement that SKYW would aspire to be like Mesa).
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My understanding of this is that at least new EMB Captains will still have to do the training flights, but new hires will not. Not sure about the RJ.
 
Lee D said:
Must just be that EMB sim's graphics in particular
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I never once mentioned paying for the type..... I simply stated that I was looking into getting one..... jeez.... why don't y'all just assume some more stuff about me and my life!:D
 
Back to the type training/circle blah blah blah deal.

Off the top of my head, I can't remember the specifics, but they can be found in the 8900 (check faa.gov for that one)

There are two FAA approved methods, and it's up to the company to get them approved.

The first, and most common, for t-props is the 85/15. Most of the ride is conducted in the sim, but not all of it. Thus the need to go do 3 bounces, a regular ILS, a OEI ILS and a circle (if required by the operator).

The second is the full-meal deal in the simulator. There are more requirements for this.

Your first type can be done in a level D sim.

If it's not a Level D, then I believe you need to have a type in the same Category (I or II - which CAT I is a prop, CAT II is a jet). (there may be a matrix of some sort that allows other qualifications to replace the possession of a type, but I really don't know).

For example, when I ran through the Classic this last year, all my class mates were chosen for the Classic because we met the requirements to complete the entire training program in the Level C sim.

As far as circling. It's true there is a component to the sim's visuals. If the visuals don't meet certain standards, then the circle maneuver can't be completed in the simulator.

However, that is not the main reason it is not done. It is the Company's choice to exclude the circle maneuver from the training/checking program, also the circle maeuver will be excluded from the opspecs. If that is the case, then the type will be issued with the circle limitation.

Case in point. My Embraer jet (145/170/190) type-ratings do not have the no circle limitation, as at the time the approved training program included the circle. As time progressed, the company excluded circling from the opspecs, then removed the maneuver from the training/checking programs. So after that point, all the pilots following had the circle limitation placed on their type ratings.
 
....cause the wife and kid are napping, I looked it up for ya:

Volume 5, section 3 sez:

A. Level D Flight Simulators (Previously Referred to as Phase Three Flight Simulators). All pilots employed by an operator, regardless of training category, are eligible for the entire flight test in a level D flight simulator without a subsequent airplane segment.

B. Level C Flight Simulators (Previously Referred to as Phase Two Flight Simulators). The method that may be used depends on the training status of the applicant.

1) With transition training applicants who have completed transition training, the entire flight test may be conducted in either a level C or D flight simulator.

2) Upgrade training applicants who have completed upgrade training and who meet the criteria of either subparagraph a or b below are eligible to complete the entire flight test in a level C flight simulator. When an upgrade applicant does not meet these criteria, the combination of a flight simulator and airplane flight test is required.

a) The applicant must have been previously qualified as second-in-command (SIC) in the airplane type. The applicant must have acquired 500 hours as an SIC for that operator in the same group of airplanes. The applicant must be currently serving as an SIC for that operator in the same group of airplanes.

b) The applicant must be currently serving as an SIC with that operator in an airplane of the same group. The applicant must have a minimum of 2,500 flight hours as an SIC in airplanes of the same group with that operator. The applicant must have served as SIC on at least two airplanes of the same group with that operator.

3) With initial equipment training applicants, Title 14 of the Code of Federal Regulations (14 CFR) part 121 , appendix H, permits SICs that are being trained as pilot-in-command (PIC) in an initial equipment curriculum and who meet the qualifications specified by paragraph B2b above to complete training and be tested in a level C flight simulator. All other applicants must be trained and tested on specific events in an airplane.

4) All initial new-hire training applicants that are being trained in an initial new-hire curriculum using a level C flight simulator must be trained and tested in specific events in an airplane.

NOTE: Line-oriented flight training (LOFT) is required for all applicants that are to be tested entirely in a level C or D flight simulator.
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Ralgha said:
Flight Safety doesn't do the Brasilia stuff for SkyWest, they just house the sim.
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I know . . . but there is another sim that I thought was for other use; the one we use as a back up if our sim "crashes" :).

By the way . . . I love how Polar can share experience and knowledge, even the stuff we could (or maybe even should) look up for ourselves, without even the slightest hint of sarcasm, impatience or superiority and provide positive reinforcement and support.

My hat's off to you my brother, and I sincerely look forward to meeting you in Vegas.:D
 
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